No, they reused an exterior. They got some good uses of the Aga Khan Museum. I liked it, It was a nice touch. It reminded me of TOS when they would redress various rooms on the ship.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand?"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
No, they reused an exterior. They got some good uses of the Aga Khan Museum. I liked it, It was a nice touch. It reminded me of TOS when they would redress various rooms on the ship.
I like how the flags in the chamber where Burnham gives her speech are from the Federation, United Earth, Tellar, Vulcan and Andoria.
Assorted comments on comments!...
Seriously though... I hate it when a show does a scene that obviously only exists for the sake of the "next week on" teaser.
In the scene itself, I also thought it was interesting that the top brass standing on the dais included five figures... a human (Cornwell... so apparently her career was not ruined by this debacle?), an Andorian, a Vulcan, a Tellarite, and... another human? If the five are meant to represent the founding Federation worlds, then, can we perhaps infer that Alpha Centauri was one of them?...
But to tease people with that ship, only to pull it away and say they were just kidding? Viewers would revolt.
(Although insofar as Fuller was responsible for the "reimagined" Klingons, I will say that was a royal fuckup. Even so, if the writers were stuck with the new Klingons and the whole war storyline — as they were apparently resigned to being — they could have done much better with them than they actually did. I absolutely hate the visuals, but I might have forgiven them if the end result was something that actually explored Klingon politics and culture in a plausible way, inspired by John M. Ford's take on them, like was originally promised.)
Yeah. Sure did make sense for Burnham to have the computer whip up a handy PowerPoint presentation with realistic-looking visual aids of something Admiral Cornwell already knew about before actually calling the Admiral to discuss an incredibly important and time-sensitive matter, huh?
Seriously though... I hate it when a show does a scene that obviously only exists for the sake of the "next week on" teaser.
No, the "official" plan (last week) was to use a sensor drone to map out vulnerable military targets on Qo'nos. Destroying the entire planet was never discussed.
Thanks for sharing the assembly hall screencap!... but I honestly don't see any blue (or any other shade) "Cage"-style turtlenecks in there. On the other hand, I do see a smattering of Andorians and Vulcans (although oddly only one Tellarite that I can make out).
In the scene itself, I also thought it was interesting that the top brass standing on the dais included five figures... a human (Cornwell... so apparently her career was not ruined by this debacle?), an Andorian, a Vulcan, a Tellarite, and... another human? If the five are meant to represent the founding Federation worlds, then, can we perhaps infer that Alpha Centauri was one of them?...
I could not disagree with you more. If we see the Enterprise bridge next season and it looks like anything other than the original TOS Enterprise bridge (well, technically the "Cage" version, with gray highlights rather than red ones), I will be monumentally disappointed. That is a classic design, and you don't fuck with a classic unless you can improve on it. I have yet to see any bridge design in any Trek show, ever, that improved on it.
I sincerely hope not. First of all, while I always love me some Bruce Greenwood, he's simply to old for the role, and personally I've always been lukewarm about Quinto's version of Spock. Second, this isn't the Kelvinverse, and there's no reason to blur that line.
If the episode had ended with anything other than the Enterprise, I'd say yeah, this sounds like a perfectly workable idea.
But to tease people with that ship, only to pull it away and say they were just kidding? Viewers would revolt.
Sigh. Of all the continuity questions they could and should address... this genuinely isn't one. As numerous posters here have pointed out, Spock never talked about his family... or his home planet... or his personal history... unless and until circumstances gave him no choice.
How do you figure the blame falls on Fuller? He really only had a hand in writing the opening episode, and was gone before anything was even filmed. After that the show was in the hands of Berg and Harberts (who both have substantial writing experience on other shows, albeit never for more than a season at a time), and less directly Kurtzman and Goldsman, both of whom have track records of writing absolutely abysmally awful schlock. The other writing staff I know less about, but it seems like a hodgepodge. IMHO the show started badly, improved (unevenly) toward the midseason, and then slid downhill again starting with episode 12. Sounds like way more of a too-many-cooks problem than an overbearing-leader problem.
(Although insofar as Fuller was responsible for the "reimagined" Klingons, I will say that was a royal fuckup. Even so, if the writers were stuck with the new Klingons and the whole war storyline — as they were apparently resigned to being — they could have done much better with them than they actually did. I absolutely hate the visuals, but I might have forgiven them if the end result was something that actually explored Klingon politics and culture in a plausible way, inspired by John M. Ford's take on them, like was originally promised.)
I would still like to see the behind-the-scenes stories of the internal dynamics in the Klingon empire that led to (A) the fascistic military expansionism of the TOS era, with the human-augment style Klingons on the front lines, and then (B) the less disciplined politics and strategy of the movie era, accompanied by the return to power of the ridged Klingons. But I'm not holding my breath...
Actually that kinda took me out of the story. First of all it looked disgustingly inedible (but okay, yeah, Klingon food), but more importantly, as far as we know it's native only to its unoccupied home planet, which is not in Klingon territory, and it's not exactly an easily domesticated creature, so it would seem like an awful lot of effort to get those eels just for, basically, street food.
Hear, hear. One of the hallmarks of serialized, short-season, streaming based shows is supposed to be the capacity for long-term story planning... but we sure didn't see much evidence of it here. Literally every week, these forums were full of more interesting, more sophisticated ideas about how to develop these stories, characters, and themes than what we actually wound up seeing on screen.
It wouldn't be the first time. I'm reminded of Babylon 5... where the first season was built around Commander Jeffrey Sinclair, who was simply not a very compelling character (no fault of the actor; he played him the way he was written, as someone struggling with PTSD), and it never quite jelled. In season two showrunner Joe Straczynski decided to swap him out for a more traditionally charismatic leader character, Captain John Sheridan... while simultaneously putting more emphasis on fleshing out the rest of the ensemble... and the show improved markedly. And he did this all while continuing a complex long-term story arc, which is a complication DSC's writers don't have to contend with!...
That idea had never so much as crossed my mind until I read your post... but once I did, yowza! I can't help but think how awesome it would be!
I remember making this image! Well, modifying it from one jamestyler made.The blurred uniforms vaguely looked like this to me.
^^^
Um, yeah, about that - you might want to go re-watch the end of ST: D S1 Ep. 13 again.
But in contrary to you, I'll be very very disappointed if it is the same as the original TOS or the Cage. They did it in Star Trek Enterprise, and it was very ugly. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I understand that it's weird, irrational and even stupid when an old design with those kind of funny button and monochrome type TV was considered to be more advanced than the NX-1 interior. If this is Austin Powers, then alright. But this is Star Trek; a supposely sci fi that imagine the future of this plane.
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BTW. What's with Starfleet needing another captain for Discovery?
Saru was perfectly fine.
Saru was perfectly fine.
Probably hasn’t got enough experience yet. Plus he’s too tasty to be captain.
I have been enjoying the show a lot, but every now and then I see something that I don't like that I've seen on other science fictions shows: characters do something that makes no logical, emotional or personal sense but they do it anyway to move the plot along.
Sadly, I see a lot of that here.
After giving the previous handful of stories a 10, I had to give this one a 4.
First, you posit a bomb that is powerful enough to decimate the planet and make it the size of a water bottle. Then you call it a 'hydro-bomb.' It makes steam when it hits the lava, making the planet blow up. What the ever loving hell kind of pseudo science is THAT? Then the logical nonsense: A small away team has very little trouble finding the tiny hole outside of town that leads to the guts of the planet and a single human - A HUMAN, WHOM THEY'RE AT WAR WITH - waltzes in and drops the device down the well. If only rescuing the Iranian Hostages or getting Bin Laden had been that easy.
Second, the decision is made at the highest levels of StarFleet to destroy Q'onos. I don't quite have trouble with that; the Federation was on the ropes. But I *strenuously* object to the methodology: Put the evil Mirror Universe episode in charge of the mission and DO NOT TELL THE CREW WHAT THE MISSION IS. Again, what the ever-lovin' hell? When the crew of the Enola Gay was assigned to fly to Japan to drop an atomic bomb, you can be damn sure they knew what the mission was and that they had signed off on it!
Thirdly: Burnham all but demands that Georgiou shoot her. Uh, hello! It's the MIRROR UNIVERSE F**KING EVIL EMPERPOR! She killed a roomful of her top advisers with her demon fidget spinner just to keep a secret. She made that decision in a SECOND. Why would she NOT shoot Burnham? It makes no emotional sense for her not to. It makes less sense for Burnham to tempt her. Burnham was counting on Emperor Georgiou's sentiment; that's not something I'd gamble on.
Fourth: Even a child could see that Mirror Georgiou will be nothing but trouble going forward. Why set her free? it's like letting a scorpion loose in your baby's crib. Incredibly stupid. (For that matter, why give her USS Discovery?!?)
Fifth, the whole Georgiou sex scene thing. Nothing but gratuitous. I don't think one becomes Emperor by being the kind of person who goes off-track on a critical mission for a little nooky. This carelessness and lack of discipline / judgment made no sense to me. There is a time for pleasure and there is a time for the mission: I can't imagine Mirror Georgiou NOT knowing the difference.
Sixth: L'Rell puts uniting the houses above winning the war. I guess I can see that, that is a religion to her. But to make her a huge traitor to her people ("The Federation has given me the means to destroy our home-world, unite or I will use it") makes NO SENSE AT ALL. And how is she going to prove the existence or potency of this underground bomb? By setting it off? Makes no sense. And there's nothing to keep someone from just killing her; the bomb's trigger device is keyed to her DNA. No one else could use it. Kill L'Rell and it's game back on. Flimsy plotting.
Seventh: Sarek was in on the decision to destroy Q'onos. He seemed to have no trouble with himself for that. Then when Burnham found a better way he was all 'oh, good, well done.' No agonizing remorse? No soul-searching? It didn't have to be big, but there should have been *something* there. And yet on the other side of the coin, at the end of the scene he was OPENLY SMILING at Burnham. I would have preferred something a little more subtle there. Sarek was not as well directed or written in this arc as he should be.
Eighth, the awards ceremony. What is this, fourth grade? And Burnham is doing all the talking, skillfully interwoven with the other announcements? It was like *she* was lecturing StarFleet. She was saying great things, but they laid the syrup on so thick I was getting diabetes. I considered it a mawkish bit of emotional candy designed to appeal to a grade schooler's need for approval. "Oh yay!! They all got medals!" It's like the closing scene of Star Wars: A New Hope. Awards Ceremony! Everybody cheer!
Finally, the U.S.S. Enterprise. I love TOS, I love the ship, thought she looked good, but this was nothing more than blatant fan service. It's way too soon. It's like giving your child dessert before they even finish the first part of dinner. The writers should have made us wait longer. *Lots* longer.
There were lots of good bits: Tilly being a total ditz on her first away mission - great writing, great acting! Tyler using his Klingon knowledge and forcibly, physically jumping in to make things happen. "A Human speaking Klingon is like a fish riding a bicycle." LOL! Clint Howard (The Ugliest Man in Show Business) making his appearance. Tyler leaving with L'Rell - that made sense. Where in the Federation was he going to go, what was he going to do? Especially since there were mentions about how Voq was 'dormant' within him? I betcha five dollars the Voq part of Tyler will be back. That can be a classic split nature conflict. Burnham and Tyler saying goodbye - powerfully acted, heartbreaking, well done.
I love the show and I will definitely be back for the next season, but this episode was a big disappointment to me. I hope they can get more emotionally mature writers next time around and make their characters do things that make sense and are, well, IN CHARACTER.
I am not a hater. Please consider this loving, constructive but stern criticism. Your thoughts welcome.
Sadly, I see a lot of that here.
After giving the previous handful of stories a 10, I had to give this one a 4.
First, you posit a bomb that is powerful enough to decimate the planet and make it the size of a water bottle. Then you call it a 'hydro-bomb.' It makes steam when it hits the lava, making the planet blow up. What the ever loving hell kind of pseudo science is THAT? Then the logical nonsense: A small away team has very little trouble finding the tiny hole outside of town that leads to the guts of the planet and a single human - A HUMAN, WHOM THEY'RE AT WAR WITH - waltzes in and drops the device down the well. If only rescuing the Iranian Hostages or getting Bin Laden had been that easy.
Second, the decision is made at the highest levels of StarFleet to destroy Q'onos. I don't quite have trouble with that; the Federation was on the ropes. But I *strenuously* object to the methodology: Put the evil Mirror Universe episode in charge of the mission and DO NOT TELL THE CREW WHAT THE MISSION IS. Again, what the ever-lovin' hell? When the crew of the Enola Gay was assigned to fly to Japan to drop an atomic bomb, you can be damn sure they knew what the mission was and that they had signed off on it!
Thirdly: Burnham all but demands that Georgiou shoot her. Uh, hello! It's the MIRROR UNIVERSE F**KING EVIL EMPERPOR! She killed a roomful of her top advisers with her demon fidget spinner just to keep a secret. She made that decision in a SECOND. Why would she NOT shoot Burnham? It makes no emotional sense for her not to. It makes less sense for Burnham to tempt her. Burnham was counting on Emperor Georgiou's sentiment; that's not something I'd gamble on.
Fourth: Even a child could see that Mirror Georgiou will be nothing but trouble going forward. Why set her free? it's like letting a scorpion loose in your baby's crib. Incredibly stupid. (For that matter, why give her USS Discovery?!?)
Fifth, the whole Georgiou sex scene thing. Nothing but gratuitous. I don't think one becomes Emperor by being the kind of person who goes off-track on a critical mission for a little nooky. This carelessness and lack of discipline / judgment made no sense to me. There is a time for pleasure and there is a time for the mission: I can't imagine Mirror Georgiou NOT knowing the difference.
Sixth: L'Rell puts uniting the houses above winning the war. I guess I can see that, that is a religion to her. But to make her a huge traitor to her people ("The Federation has given me the means to destroy our home-world, unite or I will use it") makes NO SENSE AT ALL. And how is she going to prove the existence or potency of this underground bomb? By setting it off? Makes no sense. And there's nothing to keep someone from just killing her; the bomb's trigger device is keyed to her DNA. No one else could use it. Kill L'Rell and it's game back on. Flimsy plotting.
Seventh: Sarek was in on the decision to destroy Q'onos. He seemed to have no trouble with himself for that. Then when Burnham found a better way he was all 'oh, good, well done.' No agonizing remorse? No soul-searching? It didn't have to be big, but there should have been *something* there. And yet on the other side of the coin, at the end of the scene he was OPENLY SMILING at Burnham. I would have preferred something a little more subtle there. Sarek was not as well directed or written in this arc as he should be.
Eighth, the awards ceremony. What is this, fourth grade? And Burnham is doing all the talking, skillfully interwoven with the other announcements? It was like *she* was lecturing StarFleet. She was saying great things, but they laid the syrup on so thick I was getting diabetes. I considered it a mawkish bit of emotional candy designed to appeal to a grade schooler's need for approval. "Oh yay!! They all got medals!" It's like the closing scene of Star Wars: A New Hope. Awards Ceremony! Everybody cheer!
Finally, the U.S.S. Enterprise. I love TOS, I love the ship, thought she looked good, but this was nothing more than blatant fan service. It's way too soon. It's like giving your child dessert before they even finish the first part of dinner. The writers should have made us wait longer. *Lots* longer.
There were lots of good bits: Tilly being a total ditz on her first away mission - great writing, great acting! Tyler using his Klingon knowledge and forcibly, physically jumping in to make things happen. "A Human speaking Klingon is like a fish riding a bicycle." LOL! Clint Howard (The Ugliest Man in Show Business) making his appearance. Tyler leaving with L'Rell - that made sense. Where in the Federation was he going to go, what was he going to do? Especially since there were mentions about how Voq was 'dormant' within him? I betcha five dollars the Voq part of Tyler will be back. That can be a classic split nature conflict. Burnham and Tyler saying goodbye - powerfully acted, heartbreaking, well done.
I love the show and I will definitely be back for the next season, but this episode was a big disappointment to me. I hope they can get more emotionally mature writers next time around and make their characters do things that make sense and are, well, IN CHARACTER.
I am not a hater. Please consider this loving, constructive but stern criticism. Your thoughts welcome.
Strongly disagree. I loved Sinclair and didn't find Sheridan or the lameass romance that followed at all compelling.
* *
He did show remorse and seemed grateful that it hadn't had to be done that way. But the smile. Yeah. I didn't like that. He went from stony stoic Sarek (in most eps) to pseudo-human Sarek.
Nope! Didn't work for me.
Seriously mawkish. I was rolling my eyes and it very much reminded me of that original Star Wars scene (Sorry, I'm old school. It's just Star Wars to me.)
But those ganglia must come in handy during the Kobayashi Maru.
Battlefield appointment. You've got all these other O-5's that've been waiting years for their seat, and did ok on the Kobyashi Mari, and the Manchurian tests that are going to complain to high heaven over Interface forums. It'll make the Bell riots look like .. ok im out of analogies.
He probably refused to go into the zone when he took it.
somehow they know better
I thought it was more that it was giving her the opportunity to achieve her goal of uniting the houses, since she seemed like the last one interested in that.
My take away from season 1:
The bad:
The Good:
The bad:
- Sonequa Martin-Green's performance of Burnham is simply awful. It is the single worst element of this show for me. I could probably deal with most of the other points together but whether it's the writing or the actress or some combination of both she has all the personality of a stone.
- Lorca, Lorca, Lorca....I've already made my opinion known about this whole head fake so I won't repeat it here. Suffice it to say that the whole MU thing was rubbish.
- The War between the Federation and Klingon Empire was a Big Nothing. There was no sense at all of the devastation or desperation involved in this war. To those who may think differently I ask you compare the entire season of this show to "Yesterday's Enterprise." That one episode did more to give you the sense of an ill-fated war than this entire season.
- Continued from the point above, the Ending of the Klingon War was total rubbish. For all the high-minded liberal idealism being touted about in regard to Star Fleet, the 'magic solution' to ending the war was actually nothing of the sort. The Federation placed one of their weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a volatile religious fanatic who was the follower of a messianic cult leader so that she could essentially threaten her leadership and take her planet hostage simply because it was hopefully convenient for the Federation. That's some great foreign policy!
- More high minded idealism for StarFleet: Terran Empress Philippa Georgiou is set loose upon the universe despite direct evidence that she is the perpetrator of innumerable atrocities and crimes against sentient beings in her own universe. Why? 'Cause she 'helped out'. To make sure we understand the moral relativism at play with Star Fleet personnel, Burnham lets her go with a smirky "be good" - you get the sense from this exchange that Burnham wouldn't mind sharing a bowl of Kelpian for old time's sake with her some day.
- Admiral Cornwell - what a total waste of a potentially good character. At first she seemed like a no nonsense major officer when dealing with Lorca. Then she survives a Klingon trap. Next thing you know it's 9 months later and she chokes on the bridge when arriving at the Klingon taken Starbase (this from a presumably battle weary Admiral?) then she gets dressed down about Star Fleet ethics from a mutineer convict that for all intents and purposes could be seen to have started the war in the first place.
- Sarek - why in the hell is he smiling?
The Good:
- Shazid Latif was every bit as good as Sonequa Martin-Green was awful. I hope he reappears in season 2 I thought that outside of Jason Issacs he was far and away the best perfomer.
- Kudos also go to the rest of the supporting players this season (for characters: Tilly, Stamets, Saru, Culber, Mudd... etc)
- Jason Isaacs as Lorca before the reveal (when I still thought he might be a legitimate hard-ass StarFleet captain)
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