Most Terrans would rather jump willingly into the Charon's reactor than to suffer that grisly fate.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I just watched this episode. One question:
When "Captain Georgiou" arrives on the bridge in the final scene, Cornwell's introduction of her seems to be trying to hide (from the rest of the bridge crew) that it's actually the Empress. But everybody on the ship already knows they've been to the MU, and surely they'd know it was MU Georgiou and not her prime counterpart (especially since the Empress hailed them directly at the end of "The Wolf Inside"). So why is Cornwell trying to hide it?
When "Captain Georgiou" arrives on the bridge in the final scene, Cornwell's introduction of her seems to be trying to hide (from the rest of the bridge crew) that it's actually the Empress. But everybody on the ship already knows they've been to the MU, and surely they'd know it was MU Georgiou and not her prime counterpart (especially since the Empress hailed them directly at the end of "The Wolf Inside"). So why is Cornwell trying to hide it?
She doesn’t know they know is best guess. That and the recurring themes of the story.
Since that scene is probably going down in the official ship's log, I guess it would make sense that Cornwell is faking it, because she's already ordered that all knowledge of the mirror universe will be classified and buried.
It almost seemed like a nod-wink-or-I-kill-you thing. That's the official line, crew, that's how it is. I doubt anyone on the bridge believes it, but we'll see.
The Emperor never hailed Discovery. The scene you're thinking of was her hailing the ISS Shenzhou - the only discovery crew members there were Burnham and Lorca. As of now, the only Discovery crew members who even know MU Georgiou exists and is in the PU are Saru, Burnham and the transporter operator who was ordered to remain silent, and only the first two of those know Georgiou was the evil emperor.
Oh right, I forgot it was ISS Shenzhou and not Discovery. My bad. 
She’s not hiding anything from the bridge crew. They all know Burnams history and the Battle of the Binary Stars intimately ,to say nothing about their trip to the Mirror Universe. Everyone on Discovery is well aware of the ex emperor( empress?) history.
But the Mirror Universe -and indeed Discovery’s spore drive itself- is classified. No official record of Emperor Augustus Georgiou can therefore exist.
Further,if Starfleet is to use Augustus Georgiou’s tactical advice they have to explain where it came from without exposing the Mirror Universe’s existence. The Admirals logged statement does that.
Doesn't matter. Even on Earth today, if some tinpot dictator in another country decides that his word is law and that torture, political disappearances, ethnic cleansing and the like are now legal (and official policy), there is no principle of sovereignty or jurisdiction that says the US or any other country has to accept that as legitimate.
As I've mentioned before, universal jurisdiction can and should apply here. IRL it's a somewhat grandiloquent term, as it obviously applies only on Earth, but for the UFP it's probably a lot closer to literal. (One does wonder what new term they've coined to replace the somewhat species-ist "crimes against humanity," though!...)
They aren't, though.
The emperors political situation is unique to say the least. She’s definitely a despot: but given the bad strategic situation Starfleet is in she’s a necessary despot. Not only is her “technical advice” a material necessity , putting her on trial involves disclosing classified information about the Discovery and the Mirror Universe,all of which would be public record. Then again she’s a despot who’s killed a LOT of people and deserves a long stay in a jail cell; Burnam did time for her mutiny and half a planetload of people didn’t die in the process.
They may not know where the Emperor came from firsthand,but they know Captain Georgioiu is dead ,they just came from the Mirror Universe, and this woman who looks a LOT like the deceased captain of the USS Shenzhou just walked on the bridge.Doesn’t take a ship full of science geniuses to do the math on what that means.
Unique indeed, but I don't read it quite the same way. For one, I don't believe for a minute that Georgiou actually has any strategic insight Starfleet doesn't that would be useful against the Klingons (although I believe Cornwell believes that). For another, while an ordinary civilian trial would indeed be public record, I'm sure the UFP (and Starfleet in particular) are capable of holding a trial that's classified for reasons of interstellar security.
And even beyond the obvious moral issues, it's in their interest to do so... after all, if you really want to keep the existence of the Mirror Universe under wraps, the last thing you want is to have its former ruler free to wander around at will, much less in command of a starship. Not even a Starfleet admiral would be so stupid as to think "oh, well, she promised to keep it secret, so I guess we can trust her." It's far more prudent to lock her away somewhere very secure... and right now they have physical custody, legal authority, and ample grounds to do exactly that.
Word. They may not know she was the Emperor, necessarily, but they can certainly make the reasonable inference that she's a mirror counterpart. And that's enough info to know she shouldn't be trusted.
While a closed door Starfleet trial could be done,it still leaves a paper trail.
Be that all as it may,I view this topic exposes a major narrative weakness in the Discovery series .The Kelvin Incident represented an obvious shock to the Starfleet tactical status quo , and we see from the movies elements within Starfleet (including the Chief of Operations!) realized it was high time to beef up fighting capabilities in general,whether they were fighting Klingons or gawd-knows-what.
So then we come to Discovery,where the same Starfleet that secretly built the USS Vengenace and created tactical plans based off of Khan Noonien Singh’s classified intel is losing to the Klingons ??!!
No sale. If I wrote the series, Phillipa Augustus would rule a jail cell and the militarized Starfleet wouldn’t be remotely losing to the Klingons. A stalemate ,perhaps, but the notion of the UFP losing vs the Klingon empire in a matter of months is preposterous .Even in Shatners Trek a duel between the two powers wouldn’t be a decisive fight, and that was BEFORE a pissed off Romulan went back in time.
Rant over.
^TNG Yesterday Enterprise's, a 24th century Federation was losing to the Klingons, so its not that far-fetched.
Well, unless you're positing that DSC is actually set in the Kelvin-verse, the Kelvin incident never happened in this reality. Kirk was born on Earth, the Enterprise has been out there for over a decade (rather than being under construction), Starfleet has not built the Vengeance or anything like it, and the planet Vulcan has a long and healthy life ahead of it. This is (so we're told) the universe of Shatner's Trek.
All that said, I still think it's ridiculous to imagine that the Klingons (especially as depicted here, Balkanized and without any overarching strategy beyond opportunistic raids) would have a snowball's chance of defeating the Federation, and frankly the story to date hasn't ever made the threat seem that significant.
And yeah, I'll be severely disappointed if Georgiou isn't held accountable for her actions. (Although I'm sure we're likelier to see some form of "poetic justice," knowing these writers, rather than anything so pedestrian as an actual legal process.)
In the, what, two times Burnham contacted the Discovery from the Charon, did she even mention the Emperor or who it was, to Saru?
That was a totally different timeline. This Starfleet never did that, it is an exploration fleet who "do not fire first".
Things weren't going too swimmingly in DS9 either when the Federation was suffering quite significant losses to the Klingons. They are a ruthless race who idolise war, they're going to be a formidable foe in any timeline.
I’d agree. The farfetched part is the “9 month” piece.
While different Trek movies and TV episodes show a Klingon/Starfleet war going one way or the other (in The Undiscovered Country the Starfleet admirals are confident they’d beat the Klingons ) ,it’s not pictured as a walkover event for both sides in any of them. Except Discovery.
The story makes some stupid allowances regarding the war. In the Shatnerverse a Romulan/Klingon cloaking device was a strategic tool, not a doomsday advantage. Starfleet captains aren’t stupid (unless he’s named Harriman and it’s Tuesday) , so I don’t buy the notion of cloaked birds of prey owning Starfleet ships en masse.
I could go on,but Discovery doesn’t sell the notion of Starfleet losing that fast to me. Maybe after 10 years of attrition, but 9 months? Bull.
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