Plus Cogenitor from Enterprise.
EDIT: Living Witness is not really alternate universe, just the future.
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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Plus Cogenitor from Enterprise.
EDIT: Living Witness is not really alternate universe, just the future.
"Cogenitor" remains to this day one of the best hours of Star Trek produced since DS9 went off the air. Period. End of story.
It is an episode that has no happy ending, no hopeful wishes that the events you just saw will lead to something upbeat and positive and not only presents the viewer with a tragic suicide but the relations between humanity and a potentially friendly and helpful civilization damaged, possibly beyond repair. In short, whatever one thinks of ENT as a series it gave us an episode that was one of the truest to the Star Trek philosophy of exploration and knowledge and the risk that both entail in the 21st century run of the franchise.
It is an episode that has no happy ending, no hopeful wishes that the events you just saw will lead to something upbeat and positive and not only presents the viewer with a tragic suicide but the relations between humanity and a potentially friendly and helpful civilization damaged, possibly beyond repair. In short, whatever one thinks of ENT as a series it gave us an episode that was one of the truest to the Star Trek philosophy of exploration and knowledge and the risk that both entail in the 21st century run of the franchise.
Despite Yourself review
The Tenth episode of the series, and the first episode of the second half of the first season. The beginning of a new arc. (At least three episodes.) It is revealed that the 'last jump' at the end of the previous episode sent Discovery into the Mirror Universe. An 'interesting' development to say the least. The initial confusion and the way they go about investigating is quite well done. Frakes' direction is particularly good here. However, there is a question, what happened to Stamets? Something clearly happened to him in that last jump.
Or course, more is revealed when the ISS Cooper confronts them (actually that is part of the investigation into their predicament, but it is notable itself.) However, more confronting than the situation Discovery has found themselves in, is that Tyler is Voq! (Unless there's another Klingon, House Mokkai has transformed...) Not entirely unexpected. It's certainly unexpected for L'Rell that the code phrases didn't bring Voq's (or Other!Klingon's) personality to the surface. Her surprise was very well depicted.
However, back to the other plot... The reveal that Tilly's mirror self is the captain of the ISS Discovery was quite well done (with Lorca being confused when Burnham contradicts him, and Tilly also being confused). Tilly's reply to the ISS Cooper's captain was quite well acted, and consistent with Tilly's development so far. (And 'Captain Killy''s look is different enough, to show the difference.) Redecorating Discovery to fit in was also a good story element (and calls back, or forward, to Kirk and the other officers on the ISS Enterprise in Mirror Mirror).
Then there is the call back, to Enterprise, with the mention that the Defiant (NCC 1764) had arrived in the Mirror universe at some point in the past. The plan to find out more information so as to find another way home (despite Stamets being out out action) is a good plan, but they have to blend in, and find out more about their alternate selves. Mirror Lorca using the ISS Buran to lead a coup against the mysterious Emperor, is a good example of backstory, and allow for the next part of the plan (such as it is).
But first there is a shock. Culber discovers Tyler's secret, and has his neck snapped for it. So is he dead? Most likely, barring any Mycelial Network handwaving from his partner... Talking about Stamets, is he seeing the future? (“Don't go into the Palace!” Definitely foreshadowing of some kind.) The conclusion on the ISS Shenzhou was a satisfying conclusion, leaving Burnham in an unenviable position, in a place that's familiar but twisted. 9/10.
The Tenth episode of the series, and the first episode of the second half of the first season. The beginning of a new arc. (At least three episodes.) It is revealed that the 'last jump' at the end of the previous episode sent Discovery into the Mirror Universe. An 'interesting' development to say the least. The initial confusion and the way they go about investigating is quite well done. Frakes' direction is particularly good here. However, there is a question, what happened to Stamets? Something clearly happened to him in that last jump.
Or course, more is revealed when the ISS Cooper confronts them (actually that is part of the investigation into their predicament, but it is notable itself.) However, more confronting than the situation Discovery has found themselves in, is that Tyler is Voq! (Unless there's another Klingon, House Mokkai has transformed...) Not entirely unexpected. It's certainly unexpected for L'Rell that the code phrases didn't bring Voq's (or Other!Klingon's) personality to the surface. Her surprise was very well depicted.
However, back to the other plot... The reveal that Tilly's mirror self is the captain of the ISS Discovery was quite well done (with Lorca being confused when Burnham contradicts him, and Tilly also being confused). Tilly's reply to the ISS Cooper's captain was quite well acted, and consistent with Tilly's development so far. (And 'Captain Killy''s look is different enough, to show the difference.) Redecorating Discovery to fit in was also a good story element (and calls back, or forward, to Kirk and the other officers on the ISS Enterprise in Mirror Mirror).
Then there is the call back, to Enterprise, with the mention that the Defiant (NCC 1764) had arrived in the Mirror universe at some point in the past. The plan to find out more information so as to find another way home (despite Stamets being out out action) is a good plan, but they have to blend in, and find out more about their alternate selves. Mirror Lorca using the ISS Buran to lead a coup against the mysterious Emperor, is a good example of backstory, and allow for the next part of the plan (such as it is).
But first there is a shock. Culber discovers Tyler's secret, and has his neck snapped for it. So is he dead? Most likely, barring any Mycelial Network handwaving from his partner... Talking about Stamets, is he seeing the future? (“Don't go into the Palace!” Definitely foreshadowing of some kind.) The conclusion on the ISS Shenzhou was a satisfying conclusion, leaving Burnham in an unenviable position, in a place that's familiar but twisted. 9/10.
Yeah, really not getting why folk are calling Living Witness an MU ep... while it shows an evil, fascistic version of the VOY crew, it's explicit that this is a made-up "history twisted for propaganda" version on behalf of one planet to justify their current policies, rather than being based on actual events (which the Witness of the title can attest to).
It's because it was likely conceived as Mirror universe episode, and carried out as an alternative way to do one. It was probably a merging of 2 or more story ideas, and it carries some of those MU tropes, like Vulcans with goatees. It's an unofficial MU episode.
DS9 had already done 3 or 4 by that point.
DS9 had already done 3 or 4 by that point.
I stopped watching ENT after the first six episodes, watched a few episodes during the fourth season, and then nothing until 2010 when I binged it during the week of Christmas. I haven't seen the series since but, during my binge, "Cogenitor" was an episode that stood out to me. Pretty solid episode and a diamond in the rough during the second season.
I'm a little disappointed by some of the direction choices of this ep. Why do we need to go to the MU so early in the series? It's kinda been done. Also I'm disappointed the "Ash is cosmetically altered Klingon" theory was correct. I think he was more interesting as a regular human with PTSD. Plus this is also really close to some of the stuff they did on BSG.
But within those choices I disagree with, I think the episode was executed quite well, and I like the way the characters have put on the act of being soldiers of the Terran Empire.
But within those choices I disagree with, I think the episode was executed quite well, and I like the way the characters have put on the act of being soldiers of the Terran Empire.
Just noticed that the prayer L'Rell tries to use to reawaken Voq's memories is the same one recited by T'Kuvma and Voq shortly before TK's death in "Battle at the Binary Stars". 
Which makes one wonder if the eventual Klingon revolt against Terran rule that ends with the Empire's alliance with the Cardassians began in earnest during the Discovery crew's visit to the MU in this timeframe. If Mirror Voq and his rebel friends escaped the planet before Emperor Georgiou destroyed the location of their base they could flee into space and begin the covert work that leads to the Klingons launching an open and armed rebellion with the help of the Cardassians.
isn't Cardassian space far away at this point of space exploration?
ds9 is months away from Gorn Space (Cassiday' family is from Sestus three) but they go0t all the way back to earth in a couple hours in Coup episodes.
The badlands are 300 lightyears from Earth, if Banjoman's illusion of a typical Earth lifestyle is 300 years out of date, and he made the same speed of light error that Trelane did.
The badlands are 300 lightyears from Earth, if Banjoman's illusion of a typical Earth lifestyle is 300 years out of date, and he made the same speed of light error that Trelane did.
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Wrong episode thread.
Apparently not as far as some think given that the Organian agents in "Observer Effect(ENT)" had already encountered and studied Cardassian test subjects by 2154 and in the Kelvin timeline a drink named a Cardassian Sunrise is served at the bar in Iowa where Kirk first meets Uhura. The Badlands and future Demilitarized Zone are distant but not completely out of reach for ships of this era.
No, she didn't.
If you want to destroy a planet (like the Empire just did), then orbital bombardment makes sense. But if you want to take and hold a planet for later use, you need ground troops.
Cut a valley in front of ground troops with starship phasers where’s it gonna go? Take out troops with one photon torpedo, or stun then with ships phasers from orbit, what are they gonna do? Beam them out to your brig, what they gonna do? Etc etc. Want to stop your enemy even landing troops? Stick a starship in orbit. But it was wrong episode xD starships change the rules.
We've already seen transport inhibitors, which would certainly be in wide use with ground troops (so they can't be beamed away by the enemy). Life signs can also be masked, so the enemy won't see them coming.
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