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Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

Still a better Captain than Archer. At least he tries to rise above his mediocrity instead of thinking his first instincts are always right.

And neither of them just put the security of their ship in the hands of a guy they met last week in prison. :D

No matter, if Orville wants me to take it seriously, it's impossible when the captain, Gordon and LaMarr are so inept and stupid. It works for the humor, but It doesn't land well for me with some of the more serious moments.

The show doesn't "want you" to do anything, least of all to treat it with solemnity. It's you and some other fans who are determined that it has to fit into one of two slots in order to be a success for you, and the slot you keep expressing preference for is the ridiculous self-seriousness of the Federation Space Navy.
 
And neither of them just put the security of their ship in the hands of a guy they met last week in prison. :D

And then acts like said guy has some big shoes to fill, I mean Landry wasn't exactly a well sharpened tool. A tool, but more the DB kind.

He probably plucked landry from prison too

In fact, he seems to have a thing for inmates.
 
Personally, I find Mercer to be very relatable and realistic. They even state that at the beginning of the show-Mercer is no one's first choice to be a captain. He just happens to end up on the frontier dealing with stuff.

I guess I enjoy it because I get more of an everyman feel from the crew. The aliens are appropriately alien, and interesting. They feel very real.
 
He did also have a prior record that was apparently rather distinguished - almost Kirkian, what with having been expected to be commanding a heavy cruiser before 40 (probably was a little homage, there).

He's not a bad tactical commander, either - of three Krill ships that have fallen to Orville, Kelly is responsible for one and Ed the other two. He can improvise and make effective decisions under pressure.

He can also make some pretty boneheaded ones.
 
He did also have a prior record that was apparently rather distinguished - almost Kirkian, what with having been expected to be commanding a heavy cruiser before 40 (probably was a little homage, there).

He's not a bad tactical commander, either - of three Krill ships that have fallen to Orville, Kelly is responsible for one and Ed the other two. He can improvise and make effective decisions under pressure.

He can also make some pretty boneheaded ones.
So, like regular people?
 
I'd say Mercer's closer to being what TV Tropes calls a "Bunny-Ears Lawyer" -- good enough at his job that the higher-ups are willing to overlook his personal quirks. Though the description arguably applies more to Malloy and LaMarr, who are both extremely competent and personally really goofy.
 
Yeah, pretty much.

I like the guy. I don't know if I've liked any of the Trek captains after Kirk as personalities - they were all required to carry far too heavy a burden of rectitude. Archer, a little, but Trip and T'Pol were really my faves on that show.
 
Though the description arguably applies more to Malloy and LaMarr, who are both extremely competent and personally really goofy.
Yeah, Ed's go-to - and only - defense of his people to higher-ups seems to be "he's very good at his job." Which is mostly what matters in the workplace unless someone's trying to get a leg over one of their subordinates or setting off metal detectors on arrival.
 
The show doesn't "want you" to do anything, least of all to treat it with solemnity. It's you and some other fans who are determined that it has to fit into one of two slots in order to be a success for you, and the slot you keep expressing preference for is the ridiculous self-seriousness of the Federation Space Navy.
^^^
Wow - you mean in the same way you're trying to always paint anything done on ST: D as uninspired/unoriginal for every single episode aired to date - an d how you claim you're done (but post again the next week)?

My point: Pot meet Kettle.
 
so when a serious moment lands, like an alien culture excercising their fickle sensibilities by way of absolute democracy, its hard to take seriously when the one in trouble, is in trouble for dry humping a statue, and then continues to be so ignorant of his responsibility and situation. like i said its funny, but taking it seriously? yeah i cant do it.

It's a tradeoff, but as far as sheer stress-relieving entertainment?

When Mercer explained to the admiral that his crewmember got in trouble for humping a statue I was ROFL.

I mean, those scenes of captains reporting to their superiors are usually so dry and formal. That was comedy gold.

I really have no interest in the crew of the Orville being straight-laced and by-the-book. I'd much rather have them screw around like a college fraternity and then succeed in spite of themselves. I don't like that behavior in REAL Trek (hence my distate for Kelvin timeline inanities) but I do like it in The Orville.
 
He also manages to do it within the rules by not openly flaming anyone.

It's called being passive-aggressive and it's a yawning loophole in the COC.

Use the ignore filter. It's the only solution. It also denies he who can not be named (and his ilk) the narcisstic supply they so crave.

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It's a tradeoff, but as far as sheer stress-relieving entertainment?

When Mercer explained to the admiral that his crewmember got in trouble for humping a statue I was ROFL.

I mean, those scenes of captains reporting to their superiors are usually so dry and formal. That was comedy gold.

I really have no interest in the crew of the Orville being straight-laced and by-the-book. I'd much rather have them screw around like a college fraternity and then succeed in spite of themselves. I don't like that behavior in REAL Trek (hence my distate for Kelvin timeline inanities) but I do like it in The Orville.

Exactly which is why I watch the show.

I was more reacting to the idea that's been floated to me that it can pass as something more serious, which to me it can't.

I was laughing like crazy at that episode.
 
I can certainly take it as seriously as I ever could Star Trek. This ain't necessarily saying a lot.
 
What? The colonel in Mash was a complete idiot as well as the rich Dr. (Sorry I am not old enough to know Mash that well).

Every comedy of the Mash type relies on people doing things that would get the fired in real life and there is always a certain amount of buffoonery. Besides if you think real life soldiers act serious 100% of the time, you are wrong. When people ask me what the Navy was like I always say the most accurate Navy movie was Down Periscope.

Colonel Blake was an inept idiot when it came to military protocol, sure. But he was a conscripted doctor. He did not want to be there. He did not like confrontation and was lax when it came to enforcing military stuff. When it came to managing the doctors and nurses to get the job done medically, however, he was very competent and well respected. Their MASH unit had one of the highest survival rates, which they were lauded for. Everyone loved Blake because he was a decent guy trying to make the best of a really bad situation (he had no prior experience in) for everyone. He did leave early on, and it was one of the saddest episodes of the show for the characters because he was shot down over the sea of Japan.

The only one who was portrayed as truly incompetent at his job was Frank Burns. BJ and Hawkeye were constantly giving him shit for bungling his operations and not giving his best to the patients. He left before the halfway mark. This was a continuing plot point.

When Colonel Potter came on board to take over as XO, he was an ex-military man and much stricter in enforcing proper military protocol. He was often frustrated by Hawkeye's insubordinate actions and attitude (which was Pierce's way of giving the war his proverbial middle finger), but he couldn't deny he was his best surgeon who always came through when lives mattered.

Winchester was a snob, who thought he was superior in every way. Then he got posted to MASH and had a very rude awakening. That said, he was still an excellent doctor who performed well in the operating theater.

MASH did a fantastic job giving different perspectives on the war, how some people wanted to be normal civilians but were conscripted against their will - like Hawkeye, BJ, Klinger, etc. While there were others who were pro-military and wanted to do their part - Colonel Potter, Major Houlihan and Frank Burns.

What made the comedy so sharp, while not detracting from the moments of drama, was how it came from the clash of personalities thrown together into a tense, high stakes situation. People were stressed to the max, trying to deal with long harrowing shifts, dying patients, dysentery, the threat of shelling and disgusting army rations. Hawkeye often was on the brink of a nervous breakdown. He was our mouth-piece for how absurd, arbitrary and dehumanizing war can be. So the humor works because it's very character driven and situational. It's a way for these characters to cope. MASH was a comedy which actually delved pretty deeply into the personal toll war takes on an individual, a community and to a lesser degree, a nation torn apart by civil war.

In the Orville, the humor seems to come from a different, more juvenile and sometimes meta place. I don't like it as much; it stops me from investing in the characters and being immersed in their situation. Especially when it's bringing in Seinfeld and Real Housewives etc references when it's meant to be the 25th century. But others find that kind of stuff hilarious and that's cool. I just wish the humor was more clever and character based than <insert penis/potty/sex/fart/vomit gag or meta joke here>.
 
Colonel Blake was an inept idiot when it came to military protocol, sure. But he was a conscripted doctor. He did not want to be there. He did not like confrontation and was lax when it came to enforcing military stuff. When it came to managing the doctors and nurses to get the job done medically, however, he was very competent and well respected. Their MASH unit had one of the highest survival rates, which they were lauded for. Everyone loved Blake because he was a decent guy trying to make the best of a really bad situation (he had no prior experience in) for everyone. He did leave early on, and it was one of the saddest episodes of the show for the characters because he was shot down over the sea of Japan.

The only one who was portrayed as truly incompetent at his job was Frank Burns. BJ and Hawkeye were constantly giving him shit for bungling his operations and not giving his best to the patients. He left before the halfway mark. This was a continuing plot point.

When Colonel Potter came on board to take over as XO, he was an ex-military man and much stricter in enforcing proper military protocol. He was often frustrated by Hawkeye's insubordinate actions and attitude (which was Pierce's way of giving the war his proverbial middle finger), but he couldn't deny he was his best surgeon who always came through when lives mattered.

MASH did a fantastic job giving different perspectives on the war, how some people wanted to be normal civilians but were conscripted against their will - like Hawkeye, BJ, Klinger, etc. While there were others who were pro-military and wanted to do their part - Colonel Potter, Major Houlihan and Frank Burns.

What made the comedy so sharp, while not detracting from the moments of drama, was how it came from the clash of personalities thrown together into a tense, high stakes situation. People were stressed to the max, trying to deal with long harrowing shifts, dying patients, dysentery, the threat of shelling and disgusting army rations. Hawkeye often was on the brink of a nervous breakdown. He was our mouth-piece for how absurd, arbitrary and dehumanizing war can be. So the humor works because it's very character driven and situational. It's a way for these characters to cope. MASH was a comedy which actually delved pretty deeply into the personal toll war takes on an individual, a community and to a lesser degree, a nation torn apart by civil war.

In the Orville, the humor seems to come from a different, more juvenile and sometimes meta place. I don't like it as much; it stops me from investing in the characters and being immersed in their situation. Especially when it's bringing in Seinfeld and Real Housewives etc references when it's meant to be the 25th century. But others find that kind of stuff hilarious and that's cool. I just wish the humor was more clever and character based than <insert penis/potty/sex/fart/vomit gag or meta joke here>.

I'm fairly juvenile with my sense of humor, so I love SM and his comedy but you've described perfectly why I can laugh and take mash dramatically seriously when drama entered, but why I cannot take the dramatic moments seriously with the Orville.
 
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