Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x06 - "Lethe"

[Mr Awe]

I just don't see the need for it to be Sarek.

Ironic because it was this very episode that demonstrated the value of using Sarek specifically. It adds so much to the Sarek of later years and his interactions with Spock.

It's almost like they thought about this in advance. Naah. Couldn't be.

 

[The Memetic Susurrus]

It certainly is Hollywoodism, and I had generally the same reaction. But within the context of Star Trek, where we've had Our Heroes commit mutiny on more than one occasion -- including assaulting fellow Starfleet officers, commandeering the Enterprise more than once (and once scuttling her!) -- and getting away with a wink, I'm at least appreciating the fact that her character seems to have suffered some consequences, and with some humility.

Correct. It's just a hard sell for me. When Kirk did it, it felt different, though I'll be the first to admit I thought the Federation Council should've busted him down to Commodore instead of Captain and they probably did so because the writers wanted to see "Captain Kirk" again.

Now, having said that, I do see the parallels. Oddly enough, they both include believing Sarek on points of order they didn't know about--Kirk on "Vulcan mysticism" and Burnham on obscure Vulcan foreign relations/aggressive negotiations tactics--and yet, for some reason, Burnham's case seems more egregious than Kirk's.

I'll have to think about this some more but it may be because of some metathinking going on in me. It didn't really matter if the Vulcan Hello was executed, because we know it would not have worked. T'Kumva was going to launch the war, irrespective of what happened. There was no stopping it. So, perhaps I'm letting that metaknowledge taint my opinion of Burnham, unfairly.

Or, it may be metathinking in another direction. I may be assuming that Hollywood is trying to clumsily make an association with Pvt Manning, another servicemember they seemed to be enamoured worth, even though--to the man or woman--all the servicefolks I served with or know today think of him as an unmitigated and unrepentant traitor. If that's the case then, yeah, that would taint my view of Burnham as well.

I think it's more likely the former option is getting to me, though. I just don't think her action would have worked but, as a watcher, only I knew that; not her.

Which isn't to say she hasn't grown, of course. I think she's better now than she was, as a character. But I cannot say she'll ever be my favourite.

 

[Spider]

Just got around to seeing this one, and I have to say I'm becoming quite the Lorca fan. He is a great character to follow, not that he's a wonderful guy, or should even be in charge of a Taco Bell let alone a starship, he's just a great conflicted TV character. He just may save this show for me. LOL

And no, I'm not sure he's fit to be a Captain, but he's one anyway and it makes for good TV. Thumbs UP for Lorca.

The Burnham and Sarek stuff was maybe above average Vulcan fare, but nothing special. It wasn't bad, just didn't do much for me. I fully expect Stamets to have long hair and wearing a red and orange toga and beads next week with a joint hanging from his mouth. And titty clamps. Ash Tyler is hiding something, if he's really THAT nice of a guy that'll be boring.

Overall a good episode. My count so far: 3 good episodes, one meh, 2 worthless. By my reckoning that's a good count for the early 1st season of a Star Trek TV show. CBSAA gets to keep my money for now.

 

[Fateor]

They showed it in the first two episodes. She froze as a child when the school computer brought up the Klingon attack

That was the bombing.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Lorca fucked the admiral...twice!

I'm really digging the colorful cosmic stuff. Michael's mind meld looked like something from a Thor Ragnarok trailer.

On the Tyler is Voq theory, how does he know so much about interacting with humans? It seems unlikely to me that he could become such an accomplished deceiver in such a short span of time. Could totally happen, but it feels like there would need to be some missing information to make it work. Though I could totally believe him as a Klingon plant. They're waving that flag really hard. (I suspect Lorca sees right through him, too. Which should be fun if they actually go that route.)

L'Rell is from the house of deceit and lies, isn't she?

One thing I noticed is that we didn't see/hear the tribble in Lorca's ready room. I figured that might come into play at some point in outing him (assuming it is Voq).

 

[McDuff]

And what did she find? That Lorca has scars. That he sleeps with a phaser. That he reacts negatively when someone touches him--without his permission, mind you!--in bed, whilst he's asleep. That's hyperarousal, yes, and one of the symptoms we look for in PTSD. But it's not like she did a full evaluation right there and then.

By "reacts negatively" you mean violently grabbing his partner by the neck with a phaser pointing at her face with eyes full of rage and fear. Even if he doesn't have a true psychological pathology, he's still a changed, emotional man who doesn't obey orders. He's in a military hierarchy and he disobeys orders. He hires a mutineer, overuse the shroom drive, risk the ship - an important military asset- on med level importance rescue mission, hang up on superiors, etc. Maybe, it's time for him to teach a course at the academy. If he's not pathological, maybe he's still not fit to command this important starship. Probably, the most important military asset for the Federation in their war against the Klingons.

 

[Succubint]

That was the bombing.

This is pre the bombing by the Logic Extremists. It's when she's undergoing a mock exam at the school.

She answers a bunch of questions correctly, including some about Klingons in general. Then…

C: Location of the most recent Klingon terror raid?
B: (she freezes up)
C: Unacceptable duration between query and correct response. Number of survivors at the human vulcan science outpost Doctori Alpha?
B: (looks agitated, can't answer)
C: Unacceptable duration between query and correct response. Number of survivors at Doctori Alpha?
B: No! (more computer disapproval) Please… (more computer badgering) STOP!
C: Program paused.

Clearly she has been traumatized by what happened to her parents and it's a sore spot for her. This is before she gets technically bombed to death, which obviously would be another traumatic event to survive.

 

[Xerxus]

Okay how did I not realize this? Maybe it's a reach but I saw a comment on reddit and...

Lorca's scars are a triangle and a slash. How many lines is that? 3 and then 1.

31

Another easter egg? Or is this just seeing patterns where they are unintended. Don't forget the ship bulkhead pattern under Lorca's window also translates to 31.

It's weird. Why would a secret organization deliberately scar their members so that they're easily identifiable by any opposing spy agency?

 

[tomalak301]

Well, I saw the episode and it was a lot clear this time. I still worry about CBS All Access doing something like that again. Yeah I know issues happen, but when you told Star Trek fans to buy your product and there is still anger at that very fact, you better make damn sure it works perfectly and flawlessly every single week. Star Trek is this product's God. Treat it as such.

Anyway, as for the episode, I really liked that this was an episode focusing more on the relationship between Burham and Sarek. I was worried something like that would have been pushed to the side after the first two episodes, but they really did a great job developing it here. I really liked the drama between Sarek and Burnham and Sarek's hard choice picking between his "non-vulcan" children. I still see Ferdinand in James Frain's performance as Sarek, but I'm slowly starting to be convinced he was right for the part.

As for the stuff with Lorca and Cornwell, I still don't see Lorca has a "bad" guy. I almost see him more as a conflicted guy. People call him a murderer, but then the question is what is more humane, never ending torture at the hands of a ruthless enemy who will torture you and then eat you, or killing off the crew quickly. As for Lorca leaving, yeah he probably should have stayed at his post, but this is a decision he has to live with for the rest of his life. This episode I don't think he intentionally sent Cornwell to be kidnapped. Cornwell wanted to go anyway. It could have been Sarek too.

This conflict in his character is why I am enjoying him. In fact, he might remind me a little of Jellico, trading his demanding nature or a conflicted nature. His demanding nature is still there, but he is able to get the things done that need to get done. I'm looking forward to seeing where his character goes as we get into the second chapter.

I still do say if I forget this is a Star Trek series, I'm enjoying it quite a lot. As a Star Trek series, I do have qualms (Mainly the way Starfleet acts which seem amoral) but I'm feeling like this is a $9.99 a month worth it. Also, now that I cut cable and went with Sling TV, I need CBS for Football, so there is more use for All Access after all. I just hope the episodes going forward are as perfect as the first 5.

 

[Xerxes82]

L'Rell is from the house of deceit and lies, isn't she?

Yeah, but we're talking a matter of weeks here. Voq and L'Rell esaped T'Kumva's ship at the same time that the Discovery was saving the Dilithium mining operation. Then it was 3 weeks from that to last week's episode. Considering we're just seeing the crew meet Ash Tyler, it can't have been long between episodes. You expect me to believe they taught Voq to be that good a spy in 4 weeks? No chance, unless there is some magical mindswapping tech they have yet to introduce.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No chance, unless there is some magical mindswapping tech they have yet to introduce.

Have they been to Camus Two?

 

[Kor]

I'm twenty minutes into the episode. It's great so far.

"Rules are for admirals and back offices."

I hereby declare Lorca to be the new Robau.

Kor

 

[Mike Farley]

Oh, it totally made me laugh.

I try to imagine what it would think of Troi's chocolate sundae habit.

"One chocolate sundae. 934 calories. Would you like a 20 minute PT session added to your morning schedule?"

 

[Amaris]

Ironic because it was this very episode that demonstrated the value of using Sarek specifically. It adds so much to the Sarek of later years and his interactions with Spock.

It's almost like they thought about this in advance. Naah. Couldn't be.

Now, I'm not a canonista, I'm fine with things mismatching as long as the story's good, but I have to admit that when that piece of the puzzle clicked into place, it was very satisfying.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I find the Voq theories to be stretch so far as well, but that may be a personal prejudice in that I would find it to be (IMO) a spectacularly silly twist. But anything is possible in magic based sci-fi.

That said, there are increasing hints that Ash Tyler may not be what he seems:

[Lorca's response to Tyler claiming Seattle as home] " ... 24 kilometers outside of Seattle, which makes you not exactly from Seattle ..." [pan to Tyler's nervous reaction shot]

"... I've seen you fly, shoot ... you fight like a Klingon ..."

You know, the thought had occurred to me that perhaps there's something else going on here. There are two other potential hypotheses that I can think of which could cover all the behavior we've seen thus far, plus the shenanigans with the actor's name.

First, what if they're just screwing with us? No, really. On the face of it, asking us to believe that a completely different species--with multiple, redundant organs--can somehow pass as a human is...well, it stretches plausibility. Yes, it's been done, in TOS. But we're a much more sophisticated audience now. Asking us to believe that seems to be a bridge too far. Sure, they can still do it, but we'll all have to admit to ourselves it's a bit implausible, even taking into account all the unplausible elements that are already taken for granted about Treknology (like transporting, for example). So, maybe the producers don't think we're suckers to fall for that trope and, instead, want us to think Ash is Voq, just to play with our heads. After all, it's too obvious. So if it's too obvious...what if it's a head-fake?

Second, what if it's something worse than an implausibly surgically altered alien? What if Ash is a Manchurian Candidate? Not the original, Frank Sinatra version, which used "brainwashing." No, I'm talking about the remake, which used medical nanotechnology to operationalize their control over the patsy, Sgt. Shaw. That would account for the ease with which Ash seems to get human idiom and non-verbal communication. Voq, being a Klingon fundamentalist, would likely as not have no idea how a human thinks. But if Ash is just a puppet--with Voq behind the wheel, as 'twere--then we solve a lot of problems.

Imagine the reveal, late in the season. Everyone is expecting Ash to either dissolve into Voq or be exposed through some kind of medical scan but, instead, Voq shows up, stage left, and reveals some box that he uses to control Ash (and see through his, control his movements, etc.). It saves Ash for use in Season 2 rather than have the producers come up with an implausible "That wasn't Ash but here's the real Ash...who acts like the old Ash who was really Voq" type situation.

Just a thought. Also explains the shenanigans with the name. The actor couldn't stand the makeup, they didn't want to recast, so they came up with a way to make do with what they had, with only one more use of the makeup needed to complete the character arc, at the end.

It simply isn't possible for Ash to just be a red herring. His entire prison backstory is already proven false, and there is no way there's any innocuous reason to lie about how he survived the prison.

He may simply be brainwashed or controlled somehow, but while these ideas work in theory, I simply don't believe they work in practice because of the needs of the story. Voq was pushed hard as *the* antagonist of the show for multiple episodes and suddenly, without having achieved a single thing or even visibly formulated a plan, he's just gone. But his honey L'Rell is still here, connected to a brand new Starfleet guy with an obvious false past who gets away in a very convenient escape. Yeah, Voq could just show up at the end and say 'I was manipulating everyone all along', but that would be an incredibly flat and sad resolution and a complete and total waste of his early setup. The only way he fulfills on the promise of his setup is if he plays a major part throughout the story, which means if he appears to have disappeared, then he must simply be camouflaged. Now, Tyler could still be a simple brainwashing case - he wasn't the only person available when Voq must've switched. But Voq as Lorca would completely ruin a very compelling character arc and Voq as Mudd doesn't even make any sense in terms of what he could possibly expect to achieve.

And yes, this probably requires some heavy mindsifting technology from the Klingons - maybe even enough to make Voq actually believe he is Tyler. But that's nothing we haven't seen before on Star Trek, even if it is unusual.

Could it be a confused misrecollection of Lt. Valeris in Star Trek VI who, according to Spock, was the first Vulcan to graduate at the top of her class?

I'm sure it's just the fact that Spock was always surrounded by humans and every single revelation about him, his family and his species always came as a huge shock to all of his supposed friends. That he was the first Vulcan starfleet had to deal with at that level is a reasonably logical conclusion - right up until the expanding canon flatly contradicted it, of course.

 

[Hardin]

What if it's Lorca who was switched to a klingon (or brainwashed or something) in episode 5? Maybe he insisted on rescuing Sarek so he could still go to the peace conference and be captured and when that wasn't feasible he suggested it to the Admiral instead (bonus points getting rid of her so he keeps the ship and keeps spying).

All the hints about Tyler could be misdirection (to a point). Lorca, on the other hand, has become totally paranoid. Until now he was a hardass captain with a by-all-means-necessary attitude, nothing suggested he was sleeping with a phaser set to kill or armed while awake as well - and the Admiral mentions how their night together "wasn't like it was before" (you know, almost being shot dead aside).

There's other small hints...he seems not to remember another previous night together and the switch to the "it's true but don't take away my ship" was rather quick after the denials, almost as someone who could be thinking "ok, denying it's not working, let's try to garner sympathy as humans are soft". Plus the mysterious markings...

And he promoted Tyler so quickly, if Tyler is Voq, what better than to send him where there's already another Klingon agent that can cover for him/help him?

 

[unimatrix7]

Well, they would be. Constitution-class are heavy cruisers; literally the pinnacle of the ships of the line, since Starfleet does not appear to have carriers. It's the equivalent, in the U.S. or Royal Navy, of being assigned to a guided missile destroyer which, aside from our carriers, are the best things we've got.

So, yeah, the Connies are where you want to be in the 'fleet. Not on some cutter or scout. :-)

You're probably right. But in this context we're talking about TIlly getting command experience, and the best place to do that being on a Constitution-class starship. I accept that, but am amused by the implications of name-dropping the Enterprise. Many Pretty Young Things Officers got 'command experience' of a sort under Kirk. Pike was the opposite - he was uncomfortable with having women on the bridge.

Meanwhile Burnham and Saru served under Georgiou on the USS Shenzhou (which I'm taking to be a retconned interpretation of the Miranda-class) and were groom not to be sex objects or waitresses, but starship captains.

So yeah, there's that.

 

[Noname Given]

You're probably right. But in this context we're talking about TIlly getting command experience, and the best place to do that being on a Constitution-class starship. I accept that, but am amused by the implications of name-dropping the Enterprise. Many Pretty Young Things Officers got 'command experience' of a sort under Kirk. Pike was the opposite - he was uncomfortable with having women on the bridge.

Meanwhile Burnham and Saru served under Georgiou on the USS Shenzhou (which I'm taking to be a retconned interpretation of the Miranda-class) and were groom not to be sex objects or waitresses, but starship captains.

So yeah, there's that.

Well, Burnham may know Spock is posted on the 1701 - so her name dropping it doesn't seem that much of a stretch in that context.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Constitution Class ships are in the thick of it.

Either you get some promotions, and a transfer off the ship, or you die.

Logically, you can't get "regular" promotions on the Discovery, until all it's missions stop being highly classified. In two years Tily is going to have have had 4 field promotions from Lorca, return to the regular fleet, and they are going to have no official record of why she is still not a cadet.

 

[Jayson1]

Star Trek III had bald Vulcans.

They did? I don't recall that. I plan on watching that movie this week, since I watched "Wrath of Khan" not to long ago so that will be a neat thing to spot. Is at the bar were McCoy tries to get o arrange a ride?

Jason