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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x06 - "Lethe"

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One thing I noticed and loved was Tilly holding Burnham's hand in sickbay. This was a kind, supportive thing to do, and it contrasts with just how hands off Sarek really is and was to her.
I was thinking that Sarek treated Michael with more consideration than Spock. In other words that he was much harder on Spock, especially when Spock chose to join Starfleet instead of the Vulcan Science Academy. It was rather sad to see a chasm open up between Sarek and Michael that seems to be widening. It was nice to see Amanda trying to support Michael. I am just not able to get my mind around so much Katra talk.
 
For the prosecution I present the behaviour of Landry ep 3 M'lud! Ha!
Yeah shame really as I liked her but now we know why she had to go, to make space for Tyler.

Landry - We know weapons don't work on it but lets do it anyway as I am feeling suicidal
Georgiou - Take lots of friends when boarding an enemy vessel
Europa Admiral - Here I am come and kill me
Admiral with benefits - Not dead yet I know but she could have been

All of them died because they were bloody stupid, each one a needless death.
 
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Apparently Kirk is the only one clueless about Katra. I still believe he and Spock had some deep discussions over chess that were not shown onscreen. Along with some mind melds (jmho) I will admit to not watching many ENT eps, So not too clear about the Human/Vulcan issues (I know it was not smooth sailing at first. But at least Spock decided to serve aboard a ship with a human crew and learned to live with it, even make some deep friendships.

Or they just tell an endless reel of Yo'Mamma jokes.
 
Michael is basically the opposite coin from Spock.

Spock went to live among humans and became an embodiment of Vulcan dispassion and wisdom. He did so, ironically, because being among his fellow Vulcans made him constantly irritated and treated as a second class citizen when he was the best of them.

Michael went among humans because she thought she wasn't good enough and became a neurotic mess even under the guidance of Starfleet's best.

Mind you, Michael's backstory is starting to look like Arya Stark's.

"I had my family murdered then I was blown up by terrorists then my mentor was eaten and I became infamous..."
 
Yeah, it's been real bad. I've had no problems with it until now either.

Had same issues - bad buffering then constant restarting, selected continue playing (from where left off) but would start from beg, BUT COMMERCIALS played just fine each time......

Took hour n half to watch a 44 min program

Couldn't find customer service contact for AA either.....
 
Well, in all fairness, the real-world Patrick Stewart is 77, yet he's married to a woman who's 38. Age is just a number, of course, but I don't think TNG ever had Picard involved with anyone with quite that big an age difference! ;-)
It would not matter, in the future Viagra will be in the water supply on Earth.
 
Michael and her story is starting to feel like a soap opera. So, so corny when she re-introduced herself to Tyler.
 
I really enjoyed this episode, a solid 9 from me as well.

The character development was really great. I like Tilly and Burham much more, and have a better understanding of Michael.

We have an answer now for the detractors wanting to know why Lorca wasn't relieved of command -- A) He knows how to fake his way through psych evaluations. B) He's been bangin' an Admiral. And it wasn't lost on me, just as it wasn't lost on Saru, that the one person that Lorca is not in any hurry to go rescue happens to be the one lady that threatened to relieve him of his command. His reaction with the phaser in bed as well as the final scene with it tucked into his pants show that he definitely has some severe PTSD issues going on.

The episode was great, I was hooked the entire time and am eagerly looking forward to the next one!

My perspective on this is different. For one, what the admiral did was prima facie evidence of entrapment. She's a trained psychiatrist, she sleeps with her patient, and then, rather than empathise with him, she blows the lid, accuses him of being broken, goes ballistic, and doesn't even follow-through on her threat right there and then. If you believe your patient is a threat to him/herself, you have an ethical--and, in some States, legal--obligation to report. She left him in command pending a formal complaint to--what?--Starfleet command? Chief of Starfleet Medical? Not sure. In any case, her actions, at least in my estimation, clearly indicated she came there under false pretenses and she found what she was looking for, however thin a fig leaf it was. That's horribly unethical, at the very least.

And what did she find? That Lorca has scars. That he sleeps with a phaser. That he reacts negatively when someone touches him--without his permission, mind you!--in bed, whilst he's asleep. That's hyperarousal, yes, and one of the symptoms we look for in PTSD. But it's not like she did a full evaluation right there and then. It takes more than a knee-jerk response to give a proper diagnosis. Also, PTSD symptoms do not present themselves immediately. They take time. And, more to the point, I'm not seeing him with a full complexus. He's demonstrated only two items, only one of which is a symptom: he's had a stressor--obviously--and he's shown hyperarousal. But, since it's only been one week--if you believe Cornwell--since Lorca's gotten the conn back, he hasn't shown the requisite amount of time needed to diagnose PTSD, which requires (as of DSM-5) more than a month of symptoms that--and this is key--have a negative effect on his performance or subjective experience. If it's less than a month--and, again, it has to have a negative effect on his performance or his subjective experience--than it's what we call an acute stress disorder.

In other words, she had no call to do what she did because he has not demonstrated marked deterioration in behavior, hasn't admitted to marked subjective experience, and, basically, seems like he's coping with it rather well, thus far. He's more resilient than others, mentally.

No, to me it looks like she came there to prove something, found what she wanted and, perhaps to cover her embarrassment at the awkward position she was in--at the wrong end of a phaser after she did a big no-no and touched someone in their sleep whom she suspected may have had an issue with stress--she quickly came up with her threat.

But, mind you, she didn't execute it. Why? She knew she had nothing to stand on. She'd read his evals and even if he admitted to fudging them--and, really, trust me, no one goes into that kind of test wanting to be COMPLETELY honest about it because they know what's on the line and even the psychometrists administering them know to take that into account--it's still privileged information. So...she never let the boom fall. She didn't immediately relieve him of command--which she could have done--but instead delivered a hollow threat. Until he's given a proper evaluation by an uninterested party--not someone you have a history with and with whom you've slept with!--his situation is actually pretty safe.

I suspect Lorca probably knows this. Hence his willingness to do things a man who felt threatened wouldn't do. Like reinstate Michael. On further reflection, though, he knows he walked too close to the line and, in the end, pulls back. Better to make sure his actions are impeccable than prove Cornwell's point.
 
The actor playing Sarek is good, just not all that great in this particular role. I do like him better than the one from the Kelvin Universe but the best fake Sarek is still from Trek 5. His "So Human." line is really sad when you see it from Spock's perspective.i

Jason
That's what meant. Tbh, no one has pulled off a decent "new" Vulcan since Tim Russ imo. And yes, agreed about Sarek in ST V. There wasn't a lot that was food about that movie, but that line was.
 
Another pretty good episode (7) and in particular, we finally got to see more of the Michael/Sarek relationship and I loved how they expanded on just why Sarek was deeply upset about Spock turning down the Science Academy in favour of Starfleet. I still have big reservations on the use of the Katra but it did work pretty well in this episode. Lorca continues to be developed and the fact he is clearly suffering from PTSD just makes him a more interesting character. Tully continues to grow on me with each episode and it's nice developing supporting cast starting to really emerge within the show.

My guess on Ash Tyler passing the background tests despite my personal beliefs lining up with others about him being Voq, is the real Ash Tyler was experimented on (and died) to pass his genetic code onto Voq so he could become an Klingon/Human Augment. They could of tortured the real Ash for information or use computer records on the ship he was captured on. I think there is a bigger twist with Voq/Tyler and he does not know he is actually a double agent & his real memories will be triggered at some point down the line.

The fanatic Vulcan group interests me and potentially opens the door for a behind the screen use of Romulans, who could be influencing the group. Vulcan's despite being a founding member of the UFP, have always seem to think as a society they are above the organisation so it does make sense that there are those within who want nothing to do with it.

The only part of the episode I really disliked was the use of Holodecks and while primitive, it was clearly holodeck technology before it's time. I would of preferred something like an advanced VR Headset type of interface rather than what we got. Oh and the Klingons still look fucking awful :p

Quick question...

We know that Michael's bombing scare occurred after her adoption by Sarek? when he placed her in the school/academy, so we still don't know about the death of her parents? and why no family back on Earth wanted her or even why Earth would allow an Human child to be raised on an alien world. I really want the writers to have Michael question why Sarek thought it's acceptable that he take a human child and make her act Vulcan & basically disown her biological human nature, seems so cruel.

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Rankings to date.
 
Okay how did I not realize this? Maybe it's a reach but I saw a comment on reddit and...

Lorca's scars are a triangle and a slash. How many lines is that? 3 and then 1.

31

Another easter egg? Or is this just seeing patterns where they are unintended. Don't forget the ship bulkhead pattern under Lorca's window also translates to 31.
 
Rewatching the episode now I noticed something about the whole chain of events in Burnham's backstory that cleared something up from the pilot.

Here's some of the dialog in sickbay early in the episode:

Burnham: “After my parents were killed at a Vulcan outpost …”
Lorca: “… Sarek and his human wife, Amanda, took you in. Your story is well-documented.”
Burnham: “He believed I could serve as humanity's potential.”
Tilly: “How could he put that kind of pressure on a child?”
Burnham: “But not everyone agreed with him. A group of logic extremists … they didn't want humans in their culture, tried to stop him by killing me. They bombed the Learning Center where I was educated.”
Culber: “Vulcans tried to murder you?”
Burnham: “Renegade Vulcans, a small faction. And they didn't try. Doctor, they succeeded. I was dead for three minutes. The katra has a healing power. Sarek used it to save me. A kind of soul graft.”

So the killing of her parents at a Vulcan outpost and the bombing where Sarek saved her actually were two separate events after all! I remember this being kind of a point of contention when the premiere episodes aired and some thought the event where he saves her was the bombing that killed her parents. This dialog makes it sound like she was already adopted by Sarek when the school was attacked.

Culber and Tilly are awesome in their brief moments in this. I'm so glad they found people like Wilson Cruz for the show. He seems to be able to say so much with just a look or a gesture. And Mary Wiseman is equally great.
 
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I love that it could be taken either way.

If I had been chewed out by a superior for taking matters into my own hands, then informed that because of my actions I was going to lose my command I would have asked for orders as well.

As someone has already said we only need to worry if Lorca refuses the order, which I doubt he will.

At the very least the Admiral will have a much better understanding of Klingon methods and the reasons for Lorca's state if she is rescued and we see her again, some have to learn the hard way and I am expecting a large helping of humble pie from her.
Indeed so. If Lorca winds up rescuing Cornwell and she had some traumatizing experiences at the hands of her Klingon captors, he will now have the ultimate arguing point against her:

"You've been tortured by the Klingons too. So are you going to step down from your position as Admiral?"

Additionally, it occurred to me that there is another possible explanation for Lorca not immediately rushing to rescue her -- We've already seen the options explored of:

A) He isn't rescuing her because her death would insure that she never gets the chance to strip him of his command.

B) He isn't rushing to the rescue because he actually listened to her complaints about being a loose cannon seriously and is trying to follow her orders.

Or for a different take:

C) He isn't rushing to rescue her because most of the other Admirals dislike him, and her presence on the council was what kept him from getting into trouble -- he felt free to be disrespectful to the Vulcan Admiral when he knew that she would defend him in the leadership's deliberations, but with her gone he may now be cautious because he is politically savvy enough to understand that now the dynamics in the command has changed, and the Admirals that hate him might prevail if he gives them enough ammunition.
 
The first half of this episode felt like TNG/VOY filler. Lots of technobabble, and a shuttle scene that might as well have been the Delta Flyer, replete with Tom Paris at the helm, Seven on the stretcher, and the EMH holding the medical tricorder. It was almost eery.

Also Vulcans are just racist high elves. Have been since TOS. Still are now.
 
My perspective on this is different. For one, what the admiral did was prima facie evidence of entrapment. She's a trained psychiatrist, she sleeps with her patient, and then, rather than empathise with him, she blows the lid, accuses him of being broken, goes ballistic, and doesn't even follow-through on her threat right there and then. If you believe your patient is a threat to him/herself, you have an ethical--and, in some States, legal--obligation to report. She left him in command pending a formal complaint to--what?--Starfleet command? Chief of Starfleet Medical? Not sure. In any case, her actions, at least in my estimation, clearly indicated she came there under false pretenses and she found what she was looking for, however thin a fig leaf it was. That's horribly unethical, at the very least.

And what did she find? That Lorca has scars. That he sleeps with a phaser. That he reacts negatively when someone touches him--without his permission, mind you!--in bed, whilst he's asleep. That's hyperarousal, yes, and one of the symptoms we look for in PTSD. But it's not like she did a full evaluation right there and then. It takes more than a knee-jerk response to give a proper diagnosis. Also, PTSD symptoms do not present themselves immediately. They take time. And, more to the point, I'm not seeing him with a full complexus. He's demonstrated only two items, only one of which is a symptom: he's had a stressor--obviously--and he's shown hyperarousal. But, since it's only been one week--if you believe Cornwell--since Lorca's gotten the conn back, he hasn't shown the requisite amount of time needed to diagnose PTSD, which requires (as of DSM-5) more than a month of symptoms that--and this is key--have a negative effect on his performance or subjective experience. If it's less than a month--and, again, it has to have a negative effect on his performance or his subjective experience--than it's what we call an acute stress disorder.

In other words, she had no call to do what she did because he has not demonstrated marked deterioration in behavior, hasn't admitted to marked subjective experience, and, basically, seems like he's coping with it rather well, thus far. He's more resilient than others, mentally.

No, to me it looks like she came there to prove something, found what she wanted and, perhaps to cover her embarrassment at the awkward position she was in--at the wrong end of a phaser after she did a big no-no and touched someone in their sleep whom she suspected may have had an issue with stress--she quickly came up with her threat.

But, mind you, she didn't execute it. Why? She knew she had nothing to stand on. She'd read his evals and even if he admitted to fudging them--and, really, trust me, no one goes into that kind of test wanting to be COMPLETELY honest about it because they know what's on the line and even the psychometrists administering them know to take that into account--it's still privileged information. So...she never let the boom fall. She didn't immediately relieve him of command--which she could have done--but instead delivered a hollow threat. Until he's given a proper evaluation by an uninterested party--not someone you have a history with and with whom you've slept with!--his situation is actually pretty safe.

I suspect Lorca probably knows this. Hence his willingness to do things a man who felt threatened wouldn't do. Like reinstate Michael. On further reflection, though, he knows he walked too close to the line and, in the end, pulls back. Better to make sure his actions are impeccable than prove Cornwell's point.

That is very well said, and I certainly cannot find fault with your analysis. You clearly have a better knowledge of the psychology involved than my layman's basic information.

I especially agree with you that the main problematic symptom that he displayed was his hyperarousal. Since he has literally been kidnapped off of a Federation shuttle and then tortured, his sleeping with a Phaser close at hand is not really unreasonable at all. I said when his kidnapping occurred that I would not be at all surprised if the Klingons had a spy already within the upper echelons of Starfleet command. Otherwise, how did the Klingons know about where his shuttle was to capture him in the first place? The ones that caught him after killing the shuttle pilot literally addressed him by name, so it wasn't just a random lucky coincidence for the Klingons.

And so, as the saying goes, it isn't paranoia if there really are people out to get you -- and Lorca most definitely has people out to get him, and he clearly is justifiably constantly on edge about that now.

So we shall see what transpires next. ;)
 
This was okay. A decent, quieter character episode that took a break from the war for the most part. The stuff with Lorca was more interesting than the Burnham and Sarek stuff for me actually, probably because Burnham is kinda just there for me. 7/10.
 
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