Is this show actually "character driven" at all?

[CardassianAssassin]

From a storytelling perspective, what is the point of her Vulcan background if not to imbue her with Vulcan traits? I don't get it at all. I actually would have found it interesting if, rather than sulking remorsefully, she stood by her actions as the logical thing to do. That would be an interesting conflict, one that could put her at odds with crewmates who can't understand such behavior from a human.

I don’t get the “Why would you expect her to act like a Vulcan?!” Argument.

If somebody goes to China as a little kid, is raised there and go to school there, I would kinda expect them to speak Chinese and know how to use chopsticks when they come back.

If Burnham spend her childhood and school age on Vulcan, it’s hardly unreasonable to expect her to at least partly act like a Vulcan.

 

[Jadeb]

I don’t get the “Why would you expect her to act like a Vulcan?!” Argument.

If somebody goes to China as a little kid, is raised there and go to school there, I would kinda expect them to speak Chinese and know how to use chopsticks when they come back.

If Burnham spend her childhood and school age on Vulcan, it’s hardly unreasonable to expect her to at least partly act like a Vulcan.

We also had that establishing flashback to her arrival that strongly suggested this was the case. But they've done nothing with it since. It's baffling why they made a plot point of it. At least so far.

 

[mos6507]

SMG joins the eminent list of celebrated actors who act exactly the same in every role, such as Clint Eastwood, Tom Cruise, and Morgan Freeman.

To be more Trek---add Avery Brooks to the list.

 

[eschaton]

To be more Trek---add Avery Brooks to the list.

Avery Brooks' acting style always seemed very Shatner to me. Out of the main cast, he definitely was the second-weakest actor after Terry Farrell. Thankfully he was still good enough to carry some episodes well, and DS9 was an ensemble affair.

 

[Long Syntax]

Sertting it AFTER TOS - "The Cage" saddled it with a lot more continuity/canon baggage then if they had set it 10 years BEFORE TOS - "The Cage" <--- But that was a decision the production staff made, and that is causing them more issues in selling this to TOS and TNG era fans (which is something CBSAA was counting on as it's a subscription service. They really want the existing fans to want to see accept this in addition to attracting new fans; and WHEN they set it IS an issue for even TOS fans (I do believe they were 100% correct in NOT setting it Post TNG era because then you have all the Berman era Utopian baggage, and the fact the Klingon culture is well know and understood by Starfleet in that era.)

I assume confusion or cut and paste error... STD does take place 10 years before the events in The Cage.

(I'll also hold out the possibility that I'm reading this wrong, but I've re-read and don't see where I am)

 

[Hey Missy]

You can easily set Discovery post-Nemesis, just say that Lorca is a Dominion War veteran, and replace the Klingons with some other enemy that has a beef with the Feddies.
But of course CBS has to be like, "Hey! Star Trek is all about Spock and Klingons, amirite?"

 

[Cake]

What I want is a holocommunication that Lorca has back home to his wife and kids. Or to see a kareoke session in the mess hall where Tilly gives an awesome performance. Something to remind me these are human beings, not archetypes.

I get your point, but karaoke? Scenes in which the characters are having lighthearted fun seem unlikely in my opinion. It wouldn't mesh with the dark and depressive tone they are going for.

 

[Noname Given]

We also had that establishing flashback to her arrival that strongly suggested this was the case. But they've done nothing with it since. It's baffling why they made a plot point of it. At least so far.

And we've ALSO had a full 7 years of Captain Georgiou trying to reconnect her to her Hiuman side (which is WHY Sarek set that all up in the first place) - the so far the ST: D storyline is how Burnham is struggling with that - and the wholly heat of the moment emotional and BAD decision she made (probably because up until the last 7 years - she's spent her life repressing the emotional trauma the death of her parents caused.

Hell, after the mutiny of Burnham and before they beamed aboard T'Kuvma's ship Captain Georgiou commented on how she had failed in that attempt and how she'd let her own ego make her believe she alone could reconnect Burnham to her Human side and heals the trauma caused by her parent's deaths and being raised in Vulcan society.

Burnhan was never biologically Vulcan in any way (unlike Spock in comparison) - BUT she was 100% raised in Vulcan society and did her best to assimilate to that culture. <--- And that is the root of her current emotional issues today. It was her overwhelming and 100% emotionally driven desire to save the person she saw as her mother and the crew she saw as family that to her justified and caused her to take the actions she did that led to her mutiny; and further an extreme emotional reaction to seeing T'Kuvma kill her mother figure in front of her that led to the rash decision to kill him for it - and ensure the Klingon/Fed war would be a long and bloody one.

 

[eschaton]

I get your point, but karaoke? Scenes in which the characters are having lighthearted fun seem unlikely in my opinion. It wouldn't mesh with the dark and depressive tone they are going for.

DS9 had In The Cards - one of its best light comedy episodes - immediately prior to the Dominion occupation arc. You can mix together the light and the darkness and still have a coherent show.

 

[Noname Given]

I assume confusion or cut and paste error... STD does take place 10 years before the events in The Cage.

(I'll also hold out the possibility that I'm reading this wrong, but I've re-read and don't see where I am)

No it takes place in 2256 - 2 years AFTER the events of TOS - "The Cage" . ST: D takes place 10 years priior to the first missions with Kirk/Spock which began in 2266. TOS - "The Menagerie" (which also occurs in 2266) stated the incidents of "The Cage" depicted in "The Menagerie" took place "12 years ago" - thus in 2254.

ST: D starts two years after the events in the TOS unsold pilot "The Cage". (This has been confirmed by the Production staff of the show itself.)

 

[BillJ]

You can't possibly be suggesting that SMG cannot act?

I think she can act. I just don't think she's been given very good material to work with.

And we've ALSO had a full 7 years of Captain Georgiou trying to reconnect her to her Hiuman side (which is WHY Sarek set that all up in the first place) - the so far the ST: D storyline is how Burnham is struggling with that - and the wholly heat of the moment emotional and BAD decision she made (probably because up until the last 7 years - she's spent her life repressing the emotional trauma the death of her parents caused.

So she faced no difficult decisions serving on a starship for seven years? No colonies being attacked, no situations where a sneak attack from an enemy may come?

She served with Georgiou for seven years and never came unglued in a situation? I don't think that vets of the Iraq or Vietnam war have to actually see those people to be triggered into having problems. PTSD doesn't work that way.

 

[eschaton]

Burnhan was never biologically Vulcan in any way (unlike Spock in comparison) - BUT she was 100% raised in Vulcan society and did her best to assimilate to that culture. <--- And that is the root of her current emotional issues today. It was her overwhelming and 100% emotionally driven desire to save the person she saw as her mother and the crew she saw as family that to her justified and caused her to take the actions she did that led to her mutiny; and further an extreme emotional reaction to seeing T'Kuvma kill her mother figure in front of her that led to the rash decision to kill him for it - and ensure the Klingon/Fed war would be a long and bloody one.

And how many people who aren't Trekkies - who don't have an intimate understanding of Trek canon - are going to be able to figure that out from what is portrayed in the show?

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

There are often people who simply don't like a character or a portrayal of a character and keep it simple by saying bad actore/actress.

I wouldn't say that accusation follows her from show to show, the vast majority of people who watch recognize her as a fine actress. I think what follows her from show to show are a small number of fringe types.

I haven't seen her in anything else, so...no? Based on what I've seen, I'm not impressed. Maybe I need to see more. She just doesn't appear to react to things. It almost looks like she's bored to be there. And unless that's how they're telling her to portray the character, then...

 

[Kor]

I would think that centuries from now, when humanity has developed and changed and adopted new philosophies and ways of thinking, there would already be whole groups of humans who intentionally try to live the Vulcan way. It's surprising we've never seen such a thing.

Kor

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

She served with Georgiou for seven years and never came unglued in a situation? I don't think that vets of the Iraq or Vietnam war have to actually see those people to be triggered into having problems. PTSD doesn't work that way.

Oh, but it does, remember? Maybe it was another thread where someone stated that PTSD can only be triggered by memories of the specific incident. That does seem in line with how this show would explain Burnham's PTSD. But you would think that with the Klingons not exactly a secret, Burnham might have shared her impressions with Georgiou at some point over the last seven years. They were pretty chummy.

How to do PTSD/lingering emotional trauma right = "Emissary". Just have non-corporeal beings help you out.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe it was another thread where someone stated that PTSD can only be triggered by memories of the specific incident.

A lot of things can trigger it. Heck, showing up at a colony that had an accident and finding a little girl who has been injured can trigger it. A sound can trigger it. A smell. Something that seems visually similar.

That is why I have a hard time believing Burnham held her shit together for seven years of starship duty.

 

[Jadeb]

And how many people who aren't Trekkies - who don't have an intimate understanding of Trek canon - are going to be able to figure that out from what is portrayed in the show?

This is precisely the problem -- the writer's bible is filled with good ideas that we don't see on screen. There's an interesting story to be told about her connecting with her humanity, but, oops. that's in the past. Four eps in, I have zero idea where she stands with that. Is she stoic? Impulsive? Emotional? I can't tell. The mutiny was another example -- there's a potentially great story in that, if you actually create a compelling narrative that explores the psychology of it. Same with the decision to kill T'Kuvma. But we didn't see the individual beats that would let us really understand her. It's like everything is written in shorthand.

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

A lot of things can trigger it. Heck, showing up at a colony that had an accident and finding a little girl who has been injured can trigger it. A sound can trigger it. A smell. Something that seems visually similar.

That is why I have a hard time believing Burnham held her shit together for seven years of starship duty.

She must have "Hollywood PTSD". It's an epidemic.

 

[Tesophius]

I think this would have been a much better show if it focused on those 7 years when Michael served with Georgiou prior to the Klingon incident.

 

[BillJ]

She must have "Hollywood PTSD". It's an epidemic.

She doesn't seem to have PTSD, as it is generally understood.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/index.shtml