Rick and the others moving Glenn's body for Maggie because "he's our family too" was heartbreaking.
Walking Dead Season 7 Discussion - Spoilers possible!
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The Talking Dead censor guy made his pay tonight. Sure it's annoying but damn if he isn't on the ball.
Honestly... The deaths really didnt do much for me. The wait and knowing/expecting something bad really destroyed any emotional impact for me. Chris Hardwick opened up Talking Dead with a even though you expected something bad, it still was devestating line.. Couldn't disagree more.
Glenn dying last season at that dumpster would have been infinitely more of an impact. Its always the loss you don't expect. In my life having lost friends and family or even extending it to pets. It is the sudden deaths with no warning or time to prepare that ling for me the most.
The two TV char deaths which linger for me for that reason are Henry Blake in MASH and Joyce Summers in Buffy.
This episode failed to have either character death hit me very much tho.
Glenn dying last season at that dumpster would have been infinitely more of an impact. Its always the loss you don't expect. In my life having lost friends and family or even extending it to pets. It is the sudden deaths with no warning or time to prepare that ling for me the most.
The two TV char deaths which linger for me for that reason are Henry Blake in MASH and Joyce Summers in Buffy.
This episode failed to have either character death hit me very much tho.
My interest in the show has waned considerably but that was a powerful episode. This was one of the few times that an hour of television has had me completely transfixed.
Well, I'm still engaged, although the lather, rinse, repeat cycle is getting tired.
Didn't give a damn about Abraham since he wasn't really much of a character, plus they had gone beyond the point where he died in the comics so he was probably a dead man walking anyway. He would also be the biggest physical threat to Negan, so there was logic to it.
Glen's death hurt because he had been there from the beginning, but honestly, there have been so many pointless shock value deaths already on the show -- namely how stupid the deaths of Beth and Tyrese were, or how Jessie and her kids went out -- it's just not that big of a deal anymore.
Glen's death hurt because he had been there from the beginning, but honestly, there have been so many pointless shock value deaths already on the show -- namely how stupid the deaths of Beth and Tyrese were, or how Jessie and her kids went out -- it's just not that big of a deal anymore.
It's less about the individual deaths and more that Negan actually broke Rick. Rick is usually defiant against everyone they come across. But he's left in this episode cry and pleading to have his own hand cut off. Generally any death motivated the group to revenge, but now they're just left stunned and barely able to function.
Many TWD characters had a fatal end already known, and end up living beyond that point in the comics, so its how they are used in the series that matters. For example, TV Tyreese outlived his comic timeline (his fate given to Hershel), but he provided some strong emotional moments, particularly in his relationship with Carol. TV Shane lived far longer than his comic counterpart, but his impact on the series--helping to define Rick as a character--was immeasurable, even knowing that he would eventually die. If the comic character is allowed to live longer on TV, its fine--as long as he or she has a purpose.
Of course, I've never been fond of writers' telegraphing tool of "character-makes-speech-on-life / hopes-for-the-future-then dies" because we have seen this with Dale, T-Dog, Hershel, Bob and Beth, but again, if the journey is extended and has impact on the series, then it is valuable.
...although the wounded Daryl clocked him in the jaw, so if anything, Rick's group poses more than one physical threat.
Speaking of Daryl's punch, the audience is so invested in the series that on social media, many blamed Daryl for Glenn's death. That;s a level of audience investment you will never find on most, current fantasy series.
With Jessie & her sons--yes, it was not a big deal. One, because you knew they were short-timers, but in the opposite of what was posted above, they were not designed to have an impact on the larger story. The constrating example would be the Samuels sisters (Mika & Lizzie); the audience knew they were based on the comic's Billy & Ben, and where that would go, yet the handling of their arc did not fail in creating great drama with effects beyond the violent act.
I believe S7-E1 served the same kind of purpose.
Oh damn.. that was one of the most intense hours of television i ever saw and not only because of the deaths but the Rick/Negan interaction.
I was wondering the entire summer what the producers would do.. go the safe way and choose a secondary character so as not to alienate fans too much or go full in and off a main character, kudos to them to do both and give fans "hope" that it's only Abraham.
I read online about Glenn's comicbook death and was anxious from that day on that if they chose a main character they would follow the books and kill Glenn, coincidentally my favorite character of the show but i have to give credit to the producers for making this decision as this automatically leveled Negan up to be the villain of the show and not some Governor type deal.
I always thought that heroes need villains of the same caliber for the story to be good and there are far too few good examples of this.. Heath Ledger's Joker comes to mind that turned an otherwise very good film into a brilliant one. However killng these two proved not be the main point of the episode as gruesome and heartbreaking as it was.. it was the breaking of Rick that was the most intense and i don't know how he will ever recover from this and where he will go from there.
Now given Carol's and Morgan's trip and meeting up with another, apparently big group already sets the pieces for one epic confrontation but i think it won't be over just in one season.. Negan is too good of a villain to be just the big bad of the season so i guess he will be present in multiple seasons.
Everything is upside down now and the group is at its lowest ever and i have to say it's Ricks own fault for leading them there.. it was preventable but Rick has gotten arrogant because so far he's defeated every foe he's met and "only" had a few losses along the way. Negan just cut him down a whole boatload of pegs and the show has been blown wide open because of this.
I was wondering the entire summer what the producers would do.. go the safe way and choose a secondary character so as not to alienate fans too much or go full in and off a main character, kudos to them to do both and give fans "hope" that it's only Abraham.
I read online about Glenn's comicbook death and was anxious from that day on that if they chose a main character they would follow the books and kill Glenn, coincidentally my favorite character of the show but i have to give credit to the producers for making this decision as this automatically leveled Negan up to be the villain of the show and not some Governor type deal.
I always thought that heroes need villains of the same caliber for the story to be good and there are far too few good examples of this.. Heath Ledger's Joker comes to mind that turned an otherwise very good film into a brilliant one. However killng these two proved not be the main point of the episode as gruesome and heartbreaking as it was.. it was the breaking of Rick that was the most intense and i don't know how he will ever recover from this and where he will go from there.
Now given Carol's and Morgan's trip and meeting up with another, apparently big group already sets the pieces for one epic confrontation but i think it won't be over just in one season.. Negan is too good of a villain to be just the big bad of the season so i guess he will be present in multiple seasons.
Everything is upside down now and the group is at its lowest ever and i have to say it's Ricks own fault for leading them there.. it was preventable but Rick has gotten arrogant because so far he's defeated every foe he's met and "only" had a few losses along the way. Negan just cut him down a whole boatload of pegs and the show has been blown wide open because of this.
That was a gut-wrenching and heartbreaking episode full of intense moments, the worst surprisingly being Rick's breakdown when he realized he was really out of options and all the pride and defiance that had gotten him through all these years of endless turmoil just poured out of him along with his tears when he was confronted with having to chop off his son's arm. Other actors might have made a more face-saving plea for mercy, if you know what I mean, but kudos to Andrew Lincoln for fully committing to just absolutely losing it and begging and crying at full force to spare Carl's arm and take his instead. And seeing Carl's stoic and brave sacrifice and lack of emotions contrasted the two so well. He's a child of the apocalypse and has adapted to this reality, while Rick is still struggling with it. Such a powerful scene. Knowing that Rick loses his hand in the comics, but not thinking they would want the lead to become hindered in action scenes, I fully expected them to follow through with cutting off Carl's arm. I let out an audible sigh of relief when Negan relented, because he had gotten the reaction from Rick he had hoped for and all trace of independence and defiance was gone... for now. He'll mope around for a while, as we saw in the previews, but eventually the Ricktator will be back on the hunt.
I liked Abraham, and his loss will certainly reduce the number of colorful metaphors on the show, but he seemed a bit too much of an obvious choice: biggest physical threat, center of a love-triangle, a marginally long-term character, usually the most defiant and willing to talk shit to an enemy, and most fitting person to take Lucille's first blow "Like a champ" as we saw at the end of last season. So his death didn't affect me all that much. But then when I thought it would be Daryl for a minute (and really, he's not off the chopping block yet, if you'll pardon the pun) and then all of a sudden if was Glenn, that was shocking and devastating. I didn't think they'd go for Glenn again after the two fakeouts last season, but I was expecting someone who's been with us from the start to go for maximum emotional impact, which is why I thought it would be Daryl, since Jesus already can fulfill his scout/hunter/gatherer/recruiter role. God, poor Maggie. With her bad luck I half expect the baby to get the Judith treatment from the comics. Excellent performance on Lauren Cohan's part as well. Glenn's "I'll find you" was both heartbreaking and touching at the same time, but a bit hard to take right after his eyeball got popped out.
The whole cast did an exceptional job, and Jeffrey Dean Morgan was amazing as Negan. It's a testament to his performance that he walked out to cheers at the Talking Dead aftershow following that brutal episode. That's probably the most tense and emotionally spent I've been during a television episode since Game of Thrones' Red Wedding. Looking forward to seeing how this all plays out, and hope they don't leave us hanging too many episodes before dealing with the fallout. I know they're going to have the Kingdom episode next, but hopefully we don't have to wait three or four or more episodes until the rest of Alexandria finds out what happened.
I liked Abraham, and his loss will certainly reduce the number of colorful metaphors on the show, but he seemed a bit too much of an obvious choice: biggest physical threat, center of a love-triangle, a marginally long-term character, usually the most defiant and willing to talk shit to an enemy, and most fitting person to take Lucille's first blow "Like a champ" as we saw at the end of last season. So his death didn't affect me all that much. But then when I thought it would be Daryl for a minute (and really, he's not off the chopping block yet, if you'll pardon the pun) and then all of a sudden if was Glenn, that was shocking and devastating. I didn't think they'd go for Glenn again after the two fakeouts last season, but I was expecting someone who's been with us from the start to go for maximum emotional impact, which is why I thought it would be Daryl, since Jesus already can fulfill his scout/hunter/gatherer/recruiter role. God, poor Maggie. With her bad luck I half expect the baby to get the Judith treatment from the comics. Excellent performance on Lauren Cohan's part as well. Glenn's "I'll find you" was both heartbreaking and touching at the same time, but a bit hard to take right after his eyeball got popped out.
The whole cast did an exceptional job, and Jeffrey Dean Morgan was amazing as Negan. It's a testament to his performance that he walked out to cheers at the Talking Dead aftershow following that brutal episode. That's probably the most tense and emotionally spent I've been during a television episode since Game of Thrones' Red Wedding. Looking forward to seeing how this all plays out, and hope they don't leave us hanging too many episodes before dealing with the fallout. I know they're going to have the Kingdom episode next, but hopefully we don't have to wait three or four or more episodes until the rest of Alexandria finds out what happened.
I thought it was pretty obvious the Abraham would the one--he was the only one in the group not lowering his eyes, not cowering. He held his back straight and looked Negan right in the eye, silently confronting him. There's no way Negan would miss that sign of defiance so Abraham was the logical choice.
However, I thought that the second death would not be Glenn but rather Eugene. His character-arc seemed complete and since we just had the "fake-out-death" with Glenn, I didn't think they would go back to that again. I thought that Glenn would live but Rick would end up losing his hand, like in comics. Every time Negan grabbed the axe, I flinched. It was a very tense episode--not quite as upsetting to me as previous deaths, as this was a long time coming and we were very well-prepared. But what did surprise me was the brutality of the rest of the episode. That seemed far more impactful and disturbing in the long run.
However, I thought that the second death would not be Glenn but rather Eugene. His character-arc seemed complete and since we just had the "fake-out-death" with Glenn, I didn't think they would go back to that again. I thought that Glenn would live but Rick would end up losing his hand, like in comics. Every time Negan grabbed the axe, I flinched. It was a very tense episode--not quite as upsetting to me as previous deaths, as this was a long time coming and we were very well-prepared. But what did surprise me was the brutality of the rest of the episode. That seemed far more impactful and disturbing in the long run.
Sort of makes one wonder about that, and if his companions see Rick placing them in categories of importance. While it is obvious to think, "Yes! Of course he would relent when his son was threatened," but after all of the talk of this group being a family, Rick was was still defiant moments before, even after said defiance (in the grand scheme of things) caused the murders of Abraham & Glenn. If the rumored division in the group happens in this season, Rick's point of breaking down might be one of the motivators.
Well said--Carl was truly defiant (but seen as someone to manipulated by Negan), bravely told his father to cut his arm, and was arguably the most comforting to Maggie as they were preparing to remove Glenn's corpse. He's moved through natural phases--from child who wanted to prove himself, being hardened by having to shoot his own mother, wanting to "kill or be killed" in the first Governor arc, to being a tough, but caring teenager. Carl should end up with great character development in this season.
After his experience as a witness to murders that were beyond gruesome, how will he treat Enid--when he locked her in a closet for her protection? Will he become too protective, or dismissive because she has not lived through as many horrors?
I wonder how Morgan will react, once he learns of the deaths; will he still follow Eastman's code, and consider his shooting of the Savior to be an "only when absolutely necessary" moment, as opposed to the go-to approach embraced by Rick?
Despite the fakeouts in season 6, the series repeatedly sent up flares that Glenn's comic death was more than a tease with:
- the bat scene at Terminus
- Glenn picking up the mounted bat at Shirewilt
Probably Cohan's best performance.
Very strong, character-weighty start to the season.
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I disagree entirely. That episode was atrocious. It was ugly, manipulative, torture-porn garbage.
I've had a hard time liking this show for a while now; this just seals the deal for me. It's not my cup of tea anymore. The show has killed off it's characters in gruesome ways before but this was just completely over the top and too much. I don't care if it lines up with the comics; they could have achieved everything they set out to achieve without the outright nastiness I watched in this episode.
There's enough nastiness in the real world. Don't need any in the TV I watch for pleasure. You're mileage may vary of course and that's fine and dandy. But I won't be watching this show any longer.
I've had a hard time liking this show for a while now; this just seals the deal for me. It's not my cup of tea anymore. The show has killed off it's characters in gruesome ways before but this was just completely over the top and too much. I don't care if it lines up with the comics; they could have achieved everything they set out to achieve without the outright nastiness I watched in this episode.
There's enough nastiness in the real world. Don't need any in the TV I watch for pleasure. You're mileage may vary of course and that's fine and dandy. But I won't be watching this show any longer.
It's set in a post apocalypse world where basically morality has gone out of the window, if you could stomach the stuff already seen then I don't see why you would be so upset by the violence this time around.
People are fucking weird
Also, Kirkman was on At Midnight about a year ago, and as one of his "joke" answers, outright said that Glenn would have his head bashed in by Negan in an upcoming season.
People are though...
I've heard so much nonsense online about the violence in this episode. This episode was as gory as many other episodes and to be overly shocked despite all the dam right gruesome deaths we've seen throughout the last 7 years (not just recently) is IMO weird and very hypocritical.
The same happened within the fan base of Game of Thrones.
Negan is the embodiment of such traits, TWD does not do cookie cut out villains and nor should it. Also writers manipulate viewers for a living, it's their job assuming they do it right.
I personally stopped watching last season (I did watch key parts of last night episode out of curiosity) but I stopped watching because this show is going to last 12-15 seasons at a minimum based off the ratings and I can't watch 99% of my TV shows for that long at 16 episodes per season so I thought I'd quit since I watch so much TV anyway. I imagine I will come back one day to watch on Netflix though.
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This!
I don't have a problem with characters dying but this was too much, it was brutal, disgusting and the extreme gore completely unnecessary!
I remember Lizzie's death, that was done well, this wasn't!
It was completely necessary. It showed just what kind of a monster Negan is, and how he's arguably the worst one the group has run into since the apocalypse began.
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