Feminism?
Pishaw.
Sausage parties are for losers.
(Unless you're a gay man, and then the reverse is true.)
Pishaw.
Sausage parties are for losers.
(Unless you're a gay man, and then the reverse is true.)
Kira as the only female cast member in Season 7
- Thread starter Terok Nor
- Start date
Very presumptuous.
Nonsense on about 8 million levels.
Those damn feminists...
Kira and Dax were the best examples of strong female regular characters in Trek by far. Janeway was psychotic,Torres was permanently on her period, Kes (I liked) but she was basically a magical fairy, Uhura and Tasha Yar hung around in the background, Crusher and Troi, although nice characters, rarely got the good stuff to prove their worth, T'Pol ended up becoming an emotional mess, I don't remember anything Hoshi did, Rand was Kirk's secretary, and Pulaski rubbed people up the wrong way. I actually thought Seven Of Nine was a great character but the skin tight catsuit made a lot of people unable to see how intelligent and powerful she was. I don't think Ezri had enough time to make her mark but she did a good job in the limited time she had.
Kira is probably the best female character any of the shows could have asked for if she was to be the only female regular cast member. I think she could easily have flown the flag for the females by herself. Season 7 was a bad time to bring in a new character and wasted a lot of time.
Kira is probably the best female character any of the shows could have asked for if she was to be the only female regular cast member. I think she could easily have flown the flag for the females by herself. Season 7 was a bad time to bring in a new character and wasted a lot of time.
The Trek writers were right to consider balancing the recurring cast with another woman but the issue was more why only one woman? They needed another four or so to balance out the cast in DS9 as evidenced by the original poster citing several male characters who could have just stepped up to fill the gap and yet they had to bring in a new woman to fill the role.
Similarly, Seven of Nine was conceived as a man when they were replacing Harry Kim and only became a woman when they decided to replace Kes. They already had twice as many men as women, why not replace Harry Kim with a woman?
Modern Trek doesn't do too badly with its front and centre characters but has always been poor with its wider cast. BSG did a bit better, and even more recent shows, like Killjoys, seem to be upping the game a bit again.
NuTrek looks waaaay behind the curve because they merged all three of the recurring female characters into one character so the Enterprise is a major sausage fest - even more so than TOS.
Similarly, Seven of Nine was conceived as a man when they were replacing Harry Kim and only became a woman when they decided to replace Kes. They already had twice as many men as women, why not replace Harry Kim with a woman?
Modern Trek doesn't do too badly with its front and centre characters but has always been poor with its wider cast. BSG did a bit better, and even more recent shows, like Killjoys, seem to be upping the game a bit again.
NuTrek looks waaaay behind the curve because they merged all three of the recurring female characters into one character so the Enterprise is a major sausage fest - even more so than TOS.
Frankly, I truly don’t care for feminism or LGBT issues but if I were a show producer I would make everything possible to prevent an angry mail coming from frustrated bitches or reviews accusing the show of gender stereotypes and male chauvinism.
It is presumptuous, it is so presumptuous that they invented Janeway, out of presumptuousness. I wish it weren’t that presumptuous.
I fully agree that Kira and Dax were the most balanced and well-written female characters. Some fans like Ezri some not and I would love to see all the 8 million reasons, neatly listed in alphabetical order.
It is presumptuous, it is so presumptuous that they invented Janeway, out of presumptuousness. I wish it weren’t that presumptuous.
I fully agree that Kira and Dax were the most balanced and well-written female characters. Some fans like Ezri some not and I would love to see all the 8 million reasons, neatly listed in alphabetical order.
Even the smartest dog in the world has trouble holding a pencil, so of course she's going to be frustrated while composing a letter.
Last edited:
In his interview for the Academy of Television, Rick Berman revealed that the principle problem of casting Jadzia Dax was that beautiful actresses (or models with acting talent) tended to be looking more at careers in film rather than television. He felt, in the context of the era, particularly lucky to get Terry Farrell. I found this comment to be revealing. it suggests that the pool of available actresses is very limited, at least in part because the producers may have been primarily interested in attractiveness rather than talent. Even when Trek attempted to be more diverse and more cerebral, it was still perceived as an action adventure show. I suspect that Berman and those doing casting were primarily concerned with keeping the male audience (even as they courted women), thus chose looks over talent.
A touch of hyperbole I grant you, but while I have extreme distaste for the modern brand of third wave feminism, and it's misandrist tendencies, I also have extreme distaste for the misogyny that rears opposite it.
Which is apparent in some of the language used in this thread.
Dax is a role you can virtually regenerate, doctor who style, and for one more season, going for more change than is necessary is unwise (soft reboots on sci fi shows don't often go down well with audience or fan base, and often end up close to the end of a show for various reasons, this would not have been that, but ds9 had already had more mid series 'relaunch pilot' type episodes than most, though this works well for ds9)
Balance is something that should be there in Trek, and more importantly, for the most part Trek works by basically demonstrating true equality. The women and men are virtually interchangeable in the professional fields, and their gender only comes up in personal stories and particularly when an allegorical point is being made.
Also, the noisy, political, unpleasant Anita Sarkesian types of feminism just didn't exist in the 90s the way they do now, the internet didn't have the pressure it does now, and there's no reason consideration of such pressures would have had any bearing on the show.
If anything, the opposite of this is true, hence slinky of nine appearing on voyager, before thank God they actually did something of worth with the character, regardless of her outfit.
Am not going to participate anybfurther in the thread, because its hypocritical to complain about one side of the argument whilst behaving like the worst examples of its opposite.
If one poster is behaving shamefully, it is better to click on "Report" at the bottom of the post in order to alert the moderator.
Have you seen comedy/charity special Curse of the Fatal Deaths?
Doctor Who died and regenerated 5 times in 20 minutes.
What if Dax had a really bad, extremely careless year where the symbiont wore through at least ten hosts?
Doctor Who died and regenerated 5 times in 20 minutes.
What if Dax had a really bad, extremely careless year where the symbiont wore through at least ten hosts?
Would eat up the guest cast budget double quick time, blow up a couple of writers brains, and result in the invention of the over the shoulder symbiot carry sack, for those away team accidents. They can combine it with your trill launcher.
DS9 should have continued past Season 7. It ended just because it was expected to end at 7 seasons. There's a lot more that could have been done with the characers and the setting. Ezri being one of them.
But yes, Dax as a sassy sista or dying every few episodes would have been hilarious. I'd also have enjoyed Ezri's Zhian'tara going wrong and Jadzia's personality and memories being trapped inside Quark - and Quarkzia wants to get back with Worf!
But yes, Dax as a sassy sista or dying every few episodes would have been hilarious. I'd also have enjoyed Ezri's Zhian'tara going wrong and Jadzia's personality and memories being trapped inside Quark - and Quarkzia wants to get back with Worf!
This. However, it's worth noting that Trek is quite laissez faire about hitting the mark. The gender divide in Trek has been at least 2:1 in every incarnation, and slightly worse in TOS, Enterprise, and NuTrek. Usually if a woman is cast in a high profile guest role there is often an ulterior, often romantic motive. Below the high profile roles the gender divide often gets worse. Apart from Tasha, it wasn't until season 4 of TNG that we saw a female security guard.
Any gold shirt that isn't poking the innards of the ship, and even a few that are, could be a security guard to be fair...when did that female gold shirt end up fused through the deck?
Wasnt jenna d'sora security? Sito Jaxa much later on....
I think there's some separation between things happening in trek on the below radar end, and stuff that would make the networks it's being sold to nervous. So a woman 'in the line of fire' might be something that makes some exec somewhere jumpy. Whereas on screen, it's equality business as usual and you have to hope viewers will read between lines and make inferences (they are good at that)
I think ds9 wasn't going to lose its minority representation cred by not casting in a female, it has the first black captain, and an African American actor as a lead at all was rare even then, let alone one in a position of positive authority (I am no expert, but it's basically Ben Sisko here and Arthur Fancy over in Nypd Blue, with a passing mention of Eriq LaSalle over on ER, I think his character was...Benton?) and Trek itself has a female lead and captain over on Voyager. DS9 also has 'minority' admiral guest stars.
If they really didn't want a new Dax, and that was the only reason for having one, the needn't have bothered.
(I also forgot to mention Keiko earlier, who is also a main 'recurring' character.)
For story reasons, for balance reasons, for seeing out your show with the s e characters it started with...That's why we get Ezri.
I agree that we have to view these shows in the prism of the times in which they were set, and also that they were US shows, so it's easy for us in the UK to take the cultural background for granted. However, Leeta, Keiko, Kassidy - they're all principally love interests of more high profile male characters. Kai Winn (and Opaka before her) is about the only significant recurring woman who wasn't cast in that light.
Ezri was a breath of fresh air but it's a shame that she popped up out of nowhere. I prefer it when a pre-existing character is elevated gradually, like O'Brien.
Ezri was a breath of fresh air but it's a shame that she popped up out of nowhere. I prefer it when a pre-existing character is elevated gradually, like O'Brien.
I think the reasons for being there are almost immaterial in trek. It's not like they were making hot dinners much...rom is only there because he is quarks brother, jake is only there because he is bens son etc...what was done with the characters, particularly on ds9 makes that almost not matter. It's almost like a reverse of imprinting modern values on history, in this case future history. Once you get past about season 2 of tng, and the older guard aren't as involved behind the scenes, it becomes a sort of given that gender equality is there in Trek, and then things that might be seen one way have to be looked at in another. I know what you mean though. It's certainly fiddly looking at it as a product of its time, and combining it with that future history slant. It's even more fiddly looking at what political concerns will be foisted on it when it's made now.
And I won't even get started on the mess that is enterprise or some if brannon bragas oddities when he gets elevated.
I've long heard the story of Harry Kim being the original character on the chopping block. If Seven HAD been male, would he have worn a skin tight costume too?
Similar threads
