Star Trek Continues Ep. 5: "Divided We Stand"...(spoilers)

[Zaminhon]

I am just relieved that they didn't use the"Guardian of Forever" as a time travel device. How many times has that planet been revisited from TAS to present in fan fic and fan films?

I personally don't care if they use the Guardian of Forever or not. PII/NV used it in "Mind Sifter" and I think that was a much stronger story than "Divided We Fall."

I want them to focus more on the basics of storytelling than any specific plot device. After all, is it any better that they used Kirk hallucinating two episodes in a row rather than going to something other productions have used before but STC itself hasn't?

I didn't really see this as a mere hallucination but as a Matrix-style virtual reality constructed by the nanites that was based on the computer library and other elements. Also, unlike "The White Iris", it was a shared experience more akin to a Holo-adventure, but I'm definitely glad they didn't go there. They really need to shelve that in future episodes, particularly after they build their planet set.

I think it was very clearly implied in "Divided We Stand" that if you died in the simulation you died in reality, as Kirk's leg was literally dying after it was removed; therefore, the risks to them were the same as in the real world. That's the main reason it held my suspense and why it mattered what happened to Kirk and McCoy. In this episode, there was a legitimate outside influence at work and I thought that the symptoms were due to a more logical reason than the reason given for Kirk's heart failure in "The White Iris".

With that said, I think they could have followed through and made a stronger case of tying the virtual world to the real world.

 

[Warped9]

Why should STC follow what others have done? I like STC because it impresses me as not generally being like other productions. I thought the use of the Guardian of Forever in NV/P2 was ridiculous, particularly havong a Guardian portal conveniently large enough for a starship to fly through.

Whatever its missteps I still find STC far closer to being a believable continuation of TOS. I can't say that of any other fan production I've seen.

While I can quibble and offer constructive criticiism at no point do I ever find myself cringing or rolling my eyes in disbelief.

 

[mos6507]

While I can quibble and offer constructive criticiism at no point do I ever find myself cringing or rolling my eyes in disbelief.

It's still a major achievement to produce something that plays like an average TOS 3rd season episode. I mean, the production values and acting couldn't be better. There's never a moment where I'm yanked out and thinking "I'm watching a fan-film". ANd I think the overall idea was perfectly viable. Just needed one more script revision to fill the plot-holes and add some more motivation rather than by-the-numbers Kirk speechifying.

For instance, there's no attempt on McCoy's part to criticize how eager Kirk is to become a sort of surrogate commander and rally the troops. McCoy could have accused Kirk of somehow wanting to live out a role-playing fantasy spawned from his Lincoln-worship. McCoy is a reference character so you need him to hold up a mirror and play devil's advocate and he didn't do a lot of this.

 

[Warped9]

...I think the overall idea was perfectly viable. Just needed one more script revision to fill the plot-holes and add some more motivation rather than by-the-numbers Kirk speechifying.

For instance, there's no attempt on McCoy's part to criticize how eager Kirk is to become a sort of surrogate commander and rally the troops. McCoy could have accused Kirk of somehow wanting to live out a role-playing fantasy spawned from his Lincoln-worship. McCoy is a reference character so you need him to hold up a mirror and play devil's advocate and he didn't do a lot of this.

Oooo, I like that. That definitely could have been in the story.

 

[Maurice]

For instance, there's no attempt on McCoy's part to criticize how eager Kirk is to become a sort of surrogate commander and rally the troops. McCoy could have accused Kirk of somehow wanting to live out a role-playing fantasy spawned from his Lincoln-worship.

Yep. Drama is about conflict.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

I think some simple mechanism that gets Kirk thinking about the Civil War or wars like it before he goes into the hallucination could work.

But they didn't go there because Kirk was thinking about the Civil War; it was because the nanites were thinking about it.

 

[DCR]

Why should STC follow what others have done? I like STC because it impresses me as not generally being like other productions. I thought the use of the Guardian of Forever in NV/P2 was ridiculous, particularly havong a Guardian portal conveniently large enough for a starship to fly through.

Whatever its missteps I still find STC far closer to being a believable continuation of TOS. I can't say that of any other fan production I've seen.

While I can quibble and offer constructive criticism at no point do I ever find myself cringing or rolling my eyes in disbelief.

Sadly, I can't join you in that. I have cringed at points in more than one episode of STC, including "Divided We Stand."

As for your criticism of the use of the Guardian in "Mind Sifter," I agree it would have been stupid to have a portal big enough to fly a starship through, and it would have thrown me out of the story as well. But that's not in the story. Instead, Spock and McCoy beam down to the Guardian planet, pass through the Guardian, and then go retrieve Kirk.

 

[Warped9]

As for your criticism of the use of the Guardian in "Mind Sifter," I agree it would have been stupid to have a portal big enough to fly a starship through, and it would have thrown me out of the story as well. But that's not in the story.

I never said it was in "Mind Sifter," but it most definitely is in "In Harm's Way" where they fly the Farragut right through a starship sized Gaurdian portal.

 

[DCR]

As for your criticism of the use of the Guardian in "Mind Sifter," I agree it would have been stupid to have a portal big enough to fly a starship through, and it would have thrown me out of the story as well. But that's not in the story.

I never said it was in "Mind Sifter," but it most definitely is in "In Harm's Way" where they fly the Farragut right through a starship sized Gaurdian portal.

Yes, there are definite issues with "In Harms Way," and a number of the other NV/PII episodes. At the same time, I think "Mind Sifter" was a better episode than "Divided We Stand," largely on the strength of the writing.

At the same time, I would say "The White Iris" is better than "Enemy Starfleet," and it's not even the best STC episode.

I don't think either production is universally better than the other.

 

[Zaminhon]

As for your criticism of the use of the Guardian in "Mind Sifter," I agree it would have been stupid to have a portal big enough to fly a starship through, and it would have thrown me out of the story as well. But that's not in the story.

I never said it was in "Mind Sifter," but it most definitely is in "In Harm's Way" where they fly the Farragut right through a starship sized Gaurdian portal.

Yes, there are definite issues with "In Harms Way," and a number of the other NV/PII episodes. At the same time, I think "Mind Sifter" was a better episode than "Divided We Stand," largely on the strength of the writing.

At the same time, I would say "The White Iris" is better than "Enemy Starfleet," and it's not even the best STC episode.

I don't think either production is universally better than the other.

Unfortunately the Mind Sifter just didn't do it for me, so I can't agree that the story was superior to Divided. There were a few cringe worthy scenes like Spock's self mind meld, which was laughable to the point of taking me completely out of it, but at its core was a totally unrecognizable, whimpering, whining Kirk. I remember jokingly asking my wife to please call me when even a miniscule of Kirk's personality shows up. I really lost interest in caring about the character in the ward and was getting impatient for him to return to himself. Maybe what translated on the screen was different than what the story intended, but that's all I had to go on. Unfortunately I could only manage one viewing.

 

[Warped9]

^^ I remember the story when it was in its original print form way back in the '70s. It didn't so it for me then either.

 

[Warped9]

It's nice to watch this on a 58in. flatscreen on a weekend morning. Almost like going back to the early '70s.

 

[DCR]

It's nice to watch this on a 58in. flatscreen on a weekend morning. Almost like going back to the early '70s.

The show certainly has the look nailed, though I for one watched most of my early 70's TV on a fairly small black and white Viking set.

 

[Warped9]

It's nice to watch this on a 58in. flatscreen on a weekend morning. Almost like going back to the early '70s.

The show certainly has the look nailed, though I for one watched most of my early 70's TV on a fairly small black and white Viking set.

Well, I did say almost. Back then I watched Star Trek on a 24in. CRT colour cabinet. A Zenith if I remember correctly.

 

[DCR]

It's nice to watch this on a 58in. flatscreen on a weekend morning. Almost like going back to the early '70s.

The show certainly has the look nailed, though I for one watched most of my early 70's TV on a fairly small black and white Viking set.

Well, I did say almost. Back then I watched Star Trek on a 24in. CRT colour cabinet. A Zenith if I remember correctly.

We had a colour TV upstairs, but I mostly watched Trek in the basement. Then again we didn't even have cable for the first half of the 70's.

 

[mos6507]

Fan films have gone through an evolution. The first evolution has been to nail the production values. Then acting became the glaring weakest link. So that's why I think the writing recently on both STC and NV have skewed towards character development rather than pew-pew and technobabble. It was like "Hey, look at us! We can act!" But acting is still only part of the larger experience of watching something. Focus too much on the emotional scenes and you can falter elsewhere. I thought Mind Sifter teetered too much into One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. It has to be a balance. Every now and then I'd like to see a space battle or a kirk drop-kick.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

I just watched Divided We Stand and overall I really liked it. I too watched it on my 46" big screen via Apple TV. I understand that STC wants to stay consistent with the 60'sness of the show but I would have loved for this to be in widescreen as oppose to 4x3.

Like I said, overall I really liked it. I thought the story was serviceable, all thought way to heavy handed. It was like being hit over the head with an anvil, attached to a car thats attached to a starship. Yet, even thought it was extreme its this that it made it feel like Star Trek. There was some really strong performances throughout the episode. My two favorite were Martin Bradford as Dr. M'Benga and in a Christopher Doohan as Scotty.

Martin Bradford gave a fantastic performance as that other doctor. The one that shows up when McCoy is hurt or otherwise unavailable. Simply put, I wish he would be around a lot more. This is the kind of actor you invent reasons to have him on the show. He just has a presence, an ease about himself. I would like to see him use a lot more, if possible.

I just love the character of Scotty so much and Christopher Doohan just brings to much to the role to not enjoy his work.

This episode seams like the perfect one for the counsellor to be part of, it was a startling omission to not to have her. Maybe have Kirk open up to her about certain events and to learn more about Kirk the man and Captain. It would have been a good bookend to the episode.

 

[Warped9]

These characters (the main ones) aren't ones likely to go knocking on a Counselor's door for a chat. McCoy often had to sidle up to or berate Kirk to get him to talk which he did in his own fashion. Ditto with Spock. If they want to use McKennah to chat up Kirk, Spock, McCoy and even Scotty then I'd suggest they use something along the lines of McCoy's approach (although I don't see McKennah knocking at Kirk's cabin door with a couple of Finnegan's Follies in hand).

 

[Bixby]

This episode seams like the perfect one for the counsellor to be part of, it was a startling omission to not to have her. Maybe have Kirk open up to her about certain events and to learn more about Kirk the man and Captain.

And this is how you turn TOS into TNG

 

[JE Smith]

At the same time, I would say "The White Iris" is better than "Enemy Starfleet," and it's not even the best STC episode.

I strongly, strongly, strongly disagree with this statement. I think E:S is a hugely fun episode, and TWI... less so. :/ I would probably pick "World Enough and Time" as still the best ST:NV / P2 episode.

But I agree, there's absolutely no reason to put these two shows in competition. They both have various strengths and weaknesses. The only reason people feel compelled to compare them is that they both have a high level of fan-awareness, and they both have very polished production values.