Star Trek Continues Ep. 5: "Divided We Stand"...(spoilers)

[Zaminhon]

Unfortunately, you can't show a memory on screen. Once they get out of the hallucination they don't do anything on screen to really show how the experience affected him. To connect the dots they really should have shown Kirk interacting with something relevant to the hallucination after they got back. It would have helped tie the piece together.

I'll agree, it could have been a little stronger tie in on the bridge per my edit.

And yet, none of that was done. Nor was any of it really explored. It's a trivial plot point in this episode, which gets ignored after Mbenga's astonished "His leg is dying!" (and, even more astonishingly, Mbenga's inaction to even try to stop the leg from dying.)

Given the fact that Kirk was in one piece at the end, M'Benga might have done something or the nanites repaired his leg on the way out - Probably not. But I 'll agree that they didn't go far enough with the tie in on the bridge.

 

[HarryM]

What about Drake? How did he lose his arm? Some conflict? Use the "lost limbs" to tie the hallucination to reality.

 

[Kor]

Perhaps, in a "Twilight Zone" sort of twist, Kirk should have found some physical artifact from the hallucination on the ship (or awoken from his coma with said artifact in his hand) at the very end.

Kor

 

[HarryM]

I think some simple mechanism that gets Kirk thinking about the Civil War or wars like it before he goes into the hallucination could work.

Open with Kirk reading a report from Neural V. Spock notes his distress, he tells Spock the Klingons have introduced repeating rifles. He wonders is their involvement is a mistake. Insert rest of episode. Last scene with Drake,

KIRK: Your arm...you lost it on Neural V, didn't you?
DRAKE: Yes Sir. You wouldn't believe what a musket ball will do when it hits bone.
KIRK: (grimaces and rubs leg) Well... I'm sorry lieutenant.
DRAKE: Don't be sir. We saved over 50 hill-people from an ambush, it was a pretty easy trade sir.
KIRK: And from that two more here. Thank you lieutenant.
DRAKE: Sir. (leaves)

(add more deeper meaning according to taste in closing with Spock and/or McCoy).

 

[Warped9]

And this is where a good story editor can make a difference.

 

[Christopher Miles]

(if I were James Cawley right now, I'd be really nervous, I think of how much this outing has blown away Phase II in terms of scope) but it's also just more of the same fan film nonsense.

Well, I am not nervous and as to scope, I don't share your opinion. Honestly, If I wanted to visit a reenactors camp, I certainly could. I live in Ticonderoga which plays host to thousands of 18th century reenactors annually.

Nice to see you here James. Thanks for starting all this great Fan Trek in the first place. When discussing original (and quite moving) stories- World Enough and Time set the bar pretty damn high.

As for all the troublemakers- who for no good reason pit one production against the other- directly or obliquely -

Let's be cognizant that we really now do have two full boat Enterprise productions out there (Engine rooms and all!) Pretty cool for those of us Gen X Original Trek fans that prefer story over lens flare.

Ironic that one high production value Trek is made in the North, the other (produced mostly) in the South.

Let's let the producers iron out their differences (if they still have any- and only if they choose to) - in private.

Civil Wars are so... 1800's.

 

[Warped9]

I watched this again last night with some of the criticisms heard here in the back of my mind.

I still like it, but the weakness (such as it is) is in the writing).

The reveal of what Kirk and McCoy are experiencing comes too soon. Some of what Kirk says at the campfire the night before the battle struck me as going a bit too far and a bit too emphatic given he believed he might really be back in time. Then again if some part of him thought he was possibly hallucinating then he just might vocalize his thoughts the way he did. And some of what Kirk says strikes me as a bit too lofty or simplistic in terms of how he seems to view the Civil War. Then again that isn't uncommon with people in terms of how they might view events in history.

One can make a case the danger to the ship was resolved too quickly. This left Spock and the rest to stand around fretting over Kirk and McCoy until they find a solution.

It needs more meat to the story. No, it doesn't have to be a message story, but it should be more clear in terms of what it's about. And with a bit more meat as well as punching up and polishing the writing we would also have had a bit more running time. Even on first viewing I thought it was over too soon.

 

[Christopher Miles]

I watched this again last night with some of the criticisms heard here in the back of my mind.

I still like it, but the weakness (such as it is) is in the writing).

The reveal of what Kirk and McCoy are experiencing comes too soon. Some of what Kirk says at the campfire the night before the battle struck me as going a bit too far and a bit too emphatic given he believed he might really be back in time. Then again if some part of him thought he was possibly hallucinating then he just might vocalize his thoughts the way he did. And some of what Kirk says strikes me as a bit too lofty or simplistic in terms of how he seems to view the Civil War. Then again that isn't uncommon with people in terms of how they might view events in history.

One can make a case the danger to the ship was resolved too quickly. This left Spock and the rest to stand around fretting over Kirk and McCoy until they find a solution.

It needs more meat to the story. No, it doesn't have to be a message story, but it should be more clear in terms of what it's about. And with a bit more meat as well as punching up and polishing the writing we would also have had a bit more running time. Even on first viewing I thought it was over too soon.

Story Editor.

Star Trek Continues impresses with production values, music and so forth- but is a bit ham-handed when it comes to grace and elegance and that all too elusive "light touch/less is more" brand of storytelling.

Take us almost there. So hard to describe- but so easy to recognize when you see it.

The ideal- Start with a great story told through the vessel of great actors. A great A story, and if needed, a supporting, complimentary B story. A tale that would that would work on a pitch black stage.

Then add great direction - with an eye/ focus first on assuring that each actor- expressions, inflections, jibe with a well written script.

Then add Continues' great music-
(At this point we already have something compelling- Albeit a Doctor Who/Big Finish BBC audio drama)

THEN add the practical (on site) visual production values, costumes, props, make up, lighting, camera angles, explosions and so forth-

THEN add the Post production Special effects. Edit carefully, and edit well.

Then set the Star Trek logo on fire

No, please don't set the logo on fire.

 

[mos6507]

Unfortunately with it being a hallucination, I felt nothing for the lose of Billy. He didn't really exist and we as an audience get enough sense of him as a person to care. Nor do we get see that Billy's death really affected Kirk, like how the 20 minute life Picard had affected him.

That's the problem. It's like they really wanted to do a time-travel story, but thought it would be too cliche' and so found a contrivance to make it "feel" like a time-travel story but by doing that it lowered the stakes.

Also, the level of fidelity in the illusion is equivalent to the best holodecks of TNG. The data in the TOS computers by themselves would not contain enough detail to construct these illusions. The nanites would have had to fill in the gaps. But why? By starting the story in-medias-res, we are denied any real setup as to what these nanites are. This leaves them as nothing but a story contrivance, a means to an end in order to thrust Kirk and McCoy into a scenario.

We know the reason why the probe in Inner Light sent Picard through his virtual reality. We don't know why the nanites decide to link McCoy and Kirk and latch onto the Civil War scenario in particular. Some extra unraveling of the mystery to figure out why the nanites were built would have helped make it more plausible.

Considering that the whole mission of TOS is exploration, you'd think there would be more curiosity here. Instead, the crew treats the Nanites as nothing but a virus that needs to be flushed out and eliminated.

There was actually more dialogue trying to understand the hypothetical origin of the Doomsday Machine than the nanites, despite the fact that they needed to destroy it. The Enterprise only seems interested in finding enough about how the nanites work to be able to eliminate them.

Also, it seems like the writers chose to make McCoy a rebel and Kirk a union soldier because of their geographical origin on Earth, McCoy being an "old country doctor" from the South. This wasn't touched-upon in the dialogue at all. It could have been a source of a little humor, plus also to comment on the fact that they are best of friends despite the history of animosity of their regions (something we could all learn from today with the Dylan Roof shooting). So it missed an opportunity to connect with real-world issues circa 2015.

The production values are off the charts and the acting was good but the story just felt like an average 3rd season of TOS.

 

[Warped9]

What McCoy and Kirk are experiencing is a mesh of what historical data (possibly including literary works as well as entertainment videos) exists in the computer library and McCoy and Kirk's knowledge and perceptions. It would have been nice if this had been touched on afterward.

The same with them trying to understand where they are. They give it a few lines early on and never mention it again. And yet they definitely remember being on the bridge prior to the accident. They could have tried to reason this out a bit more.

Their first impulse was to get away and hide and yet after the first attempt they never try again. Why not? They just give in to the whole scenario.

In some respects this story is a bit like "Spectre Of The Gun" only in that story they actually question the reality of what they're experiencing and find a way to resolve it. That, too, was a story where everything that happened was really all in the characters' minds.

The more I think about this the more I think this story needed a better context. Maybe the Enterprise had just visited a planet where a civil war was presently happening. Or maybe something else. Something that would give more weight to what we see unfold.

 

[Zaminhon]

I am just relieved that they didn't use the"Guardian of Forever" as a time travel device. How many times has that planet been revisited from TAS to present in fan fic and fan films?

 

[Bixby]

The ideal- Start with a great story told through the vessel of great actors. A great A story, and if needed, a supporting, complimentary B story. A tale that would that would work on a pitch black stage.

Ixnay on the B-story thing...

 

[Warped9]

The ideal- Start with a great story told through the vessel of great actors. A great A story, and if needed, a supporting, complimentary B story. A tale that would that would work on a pitch black stage.

Ixnay on the B-story thing...

Ditto.

I am just relieved that they didn't use the"Guardian of Forever" as a time travel device. How many times has that planet been revisited from TAS to present in fan fic and fan films?

Yes, greatly relieved they didn't do the time travel approach.

 

[Astra]

His leg was tied behind him; all of those severed limb scenes with Kirk were done using practical effects (no green sock).

Thank you. I apologize - for seeming to be so obsessed with it - I want to add that on first watch, I was so immersed in the story, I accepted it as absolutely real and true. I truly did not stop and think, how did they do that. That only came afterwards.

I also want to apologize for stating something as fact which obviously wasn't true. I should have realized that modern CGI would not go well with the whole "only want to do special effects the way they were available at the time".

The more impressive is what you have achieved there. This is much more hands-on, like building models and real sets. I like it.

 

[Warped9]

Sometimes a practical effect is just simpler and sufficiently effective than cgi.

 

[Zaminhon]

I thought that Grant Imahara called up his old TV pals to rig some charges on the battle field. I was surprised to find out that those cannon explosions were total CG.

Speaking of practical effects, I'm going to the Miramar Airshow this weekend and they have a simulated Marines ground support air strike with a huge pyrotechnic display at the end. I remember from years past feeling the blast of heat from 500 yards away.

 

[HarryM]

Yes, at the Salinas Air Show many years ago they had a simulated air-strike by a B-25. We were sitting right in front and the heat/noise was pretty intense.

 

[DCR]

I am just relieved that they didn't use the"Guardian of Forever" as a time travel device. How many times has that planet been revisited from TAS to present in fan fic and fan films?

I personally don't care if they use the Guardian of Forever or not. PII/NV used it in "Mind Sifter" and I think that was a much stronger story than "Divided We Fall."

I want them to focus more on the basics of storytelling than any specific plot device. After all, is it any better that they used Kirk hallucinating two episodes in a row rather than going to something other productions have used before but STC itself hasn't?

 

[BillJ]

I haven't watched it yet, but the involvement of Cushman and comparisons to "The Inner Light" make me less than excited to watch this one.

 

[Warped9]

I haven't watched it yet, but the involvement of Cushman and comparisons to "The Inner Light" make me less than excited to watch this one.

Fan or professional it isn't easy to not do something that hasn't been done in Trek before in some variation or other.

I would suggest you try to set aside any preconceptions or assumptions and just watch it to form your own conclusions. As has been said upthread at worst it's on par with some third season TOS episodes. It isn't bad or even poor. In some respects it's quite respectable. But like most anything it could have been better.