Star Trek: Axanar

[Richard Baker]

If there's any problem, it's that "queen bitch whore" is dialogue that's trying too hard. A one-word epithet would be more conversational.

But then I'm probably biased by doing catch-up binging on GoT, where everyone's a "c--t."

I assumed 'Queen-Bitch-Whore' is an English translation of a simpler guttural Klingon word.

Have no problem with that line- it is after all war and the enemy often has unflattering things to say about those on the other side.
Ever see a Popeye cartoon from WW2?

 

[jojolimited]

If there's any problem, it's that "queen bitch whore" is dialogue that's trying too hard. A one-word epithet would be more conversational.

But then I'm probably biased by doing catch-up binging on GoT, where everyone's a "c--t."

And they stole that from Deadwood. :-)

 

[Mudd]

Oh, I'm pretty sure that people have been calling one another that for quite a while.

 

[loghaD]

You all are free of course to take it as you will. I'm just tired of every default insult to women always being related to sexuality. It's always "whore" this and that. Star Trek went fifty years without needing anyone to use an insult like this and I disagree that it's "new and interesting." It's limiting and degrading and as I said before, lazy writing. Just my opinion.

Yes, and I find that it's particularly unfortunate to see this despicable human attitude accredited to other species, as though it's some universal law of nature.
Other species should have their own virtues and vices, and different insults to go with them. (Admittedly, though, the series have shown Klingons to be rather misogynistic, which I've always felt is rather unfortunate.)

In fact, I kind of prefer to think that the QBW insult was the result of one of two things:

1) English did not have the vocabulary necessary to translate the actual Klingon insult, but "queen bitch whore" seemed like a reasonable equivalent.

2) Klingons realize that what's insulting to them ("Your nose is shiny!" and what-not) is not necessarily insulting to non-Klingons. Therefore, the Klingon(s) who coined the term used his/her/their limited knowledge of the English language and human culture to construct what he/she/they thought would be the most insulting thing you could call a human woman.

In either case, the details of the phrase would actually reflect more on the worst qualities of human culture than it would on Klingon culture.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

I'm not wildly against the line (save for its clumsiness) but I think most of the arguments are bypassing any kind of in-universe rationalization and just saying "these kind of things should not be crafted by writers" in general.

Call it PC if you want but it appears that's the thought process here.

 

[CRM-114]

I'd like to point out that Kate Vernon says The Line, she portrays Captain Alexander with mild amusement. Clearly, we're supposed to understand that it's' pejorative intent did not have the desired effect, at least toward her anyway.

I think people object to the use of such strong language more than anything, as that's something Trek doesn't normally do.

 

[Karzak]

I can only speak for myself. I just don't think it's particularly creative or good writing when the default choice to insult a female (fictional character or otherwise) is to do so based on her sexuality.

You'd never hear the Klingons call Garth "tiny dick" or "the Erectile Dysfunctional One."

 

[Kruezerman]

Maybe to the Klingons two inches is huge.


Ya never know.

 

[YJAGG]

As always, I'm watching this thread carefully. I'd be appreciative if folks could dial it back s notch, develop thicker skin, and not take umbrage so quickly.

We'll see if this calms things down a bit.

 

[GSchnitzer]

As always, I'm watching this thread carefully. I'd be appreciative if folks could dial it back s notch, develop thicker skin, and not take umbrage so quickly.

We'll see if this calms things down a bit.

I said *don't* take umbrage.

 

[Ithekro]

I can only speak for myself. I just don't think it's particularly creative or good writing when the default choice to insult a female (fictional character or otherwise) is to do so based on her sexuality.

You'd never hear the Klingons call Garth "tiny dick" or "the Erectile Dysfunctional One."

Well "of Izar" might mean something like that in Klingonese.

 

[Barbreader]

Or, it could be a bad translation. In many languages, the modified word comes before the modifiers. For all we know the word 'queen' is the primary word, the word 'bitch' indicates she sticks with her hellish attacks and fears no one, and the word 'whore' here indicates she is willing to spread that hell to anyone who dares ask her for it... possibly destroying an entire battle fleet with a single ship.

 

[Maurice]

Yeah, except that's not what they meant.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I suspect they put it in specifically to generate talk, exactly as it is happening.

 

[BillJ]

You'd never hear the Klingons call Garth "tiny dick" or "the Erectile Dysfunctional One."

Since Axanar hasn't been released yet, we simply don't know that.

 

[Warped9]

I think people object to the use of such strong language more than anything, as that's something Trek doesn't normally do.

I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Tosk]

You'd never hear the Klingons call Garth "tiny dick" or "the Erectile Dysfunctional One."

Since Axanar hasn't been released yet, we simply don't know that.

There are several untranslated Klingon curses 'on file', for all we know some of them do amount to making fun of a male's genitals. And I can easily see Klingons referring to someone as a bastard.

I think people object to the use of such strong language more than anything, as that's something Trek doesn't normally do.

I'm inclined to agree.

Not often, but sometimes. Shit, crap, bullshit.

 

[loghaD]

I think people object to the use of such strong language more than anything, as that's something Trek doesn't normally do.

I'm inclined to agree.

Not often, but sometimes. Shit, crap, bullshit.

They even used two versions of the "N-word" in DS9: "Far Beyond the Stars". However, I think most viewers would agree that they were used in a way that was historically and culturally relevant, and in a way that was clearly critical of racism.

 

[beamMe]

You all are free of course to take it as you will. I'm just tired of every default insult to women always being related to sexuality. It's always "whore" this and that. Star Trek went fifty years without needing anyone to use an insult like this and I disagree that it's "new and interesting." It's limiting and degrading and as I said before, lazy writing. Just my opinion.

43 years, actually. Or are you forgetting that Amanda Grayson was that "human whore" according to some Vulcan kids?

 

[beamMe]

And here we are, arguing over a single line.

Into Darkness had people up in arms because they showed a woman in her undies for a second and a half.

Hell, people argued over Kirk's use of the word "man" in the trailer for Star Trek.