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Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

have we seen the main fuselage this season though? the one with the glass walls and the interactive table briefing room?
Yes, from Trip's discovery of the many Koenigs, to Ward's taking of Skye during the battle over the Kree city, we've seen the interior of the Bus this season.
 
Hasn't there been a hiatus or two since the season began?

That's when sets are ripped apart and replaced, when the actors are away.
 
Production on the series is not (always) halted due to the network giving a it a split season. And the Bus' sets wouldn't be struck due to the addition of the base's sets, as most of the base sets appeared in the second half of the last season. The space allocated for them, appears not to infringe on the space needed for episode specific sets creation/building. :)
 
Production on the series is not (always) halted due to the network giving a it a split season.

True. Since production schedules these days generally run 8-10 days per episode, midseason hiatuses are necessary to let the production catch up.


And the Bus' sets wouldn't be struck due to the addition of the base's sets, as most of the base sets appeared in the second half of the last season. The space allocated for them, appears not to infringe on the space needed for episode specific sets creation/building. :)

Also, it's possible that some of the sets are wild and can be taken down or put back up as needed. The vibranium cell on the Bus looks like the kind of set that can be easily assembled inside a larger set.
 
Did we see the same episode? The whole point of the flashbacks was to establish that this wasn't the same old SHIELD -- that Bobbi, Mack, and Izzy rejected Gonzales's impulse to blindly follow Fury's orders, chose to follow their consciences instead, and convinced Gonzales to do the same. In their view, Coulson represents the same old SHIELD, just one more of Fury's selfish and dangerous secret projects.


This was what threw me. It seemed so contradictory to the present day conversation between Gonzales and Coulson after they took out Coulson's team.

Gonzales was originally a gung-ho follower of Nick Fury's orders. He had to be "outvoted" by Bobbi and the rest, convinced that they were going to take SHIELD a new direction.

Flash to the scene where Gonzales was talking to a handcuffed Coulson. Gonzales is treating Coulson like he's gone off the reservation, like Coulson used to be a loyal SHIELD agent and used to follow Fury's orders and direction but now couldn't be trusted. Meanwhile, Gonzales is acting like he is being loyal to SHIELD's original purpose and like he's remaining faithful to Fury's orders.

So, either he's lying to himself, lying to Coulson or he's contradicting himself. If Gonzales was that loyal to Fury and had to be convinced by others to go a different direction, then why is he such a true believer now, acting like this is how he always was - a man that feels Fury was wrong to keep such secrets and that Fury had gone off the deep end?

It would seem that Gonzales would show more sympathy for Coulson, since Gonzales was once Coulson.

Or I am missing something.
 
Nick Fury (Unless he's much older than he looks) was not the First Director of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Different managerial philosophies create a different S.H.I.E.L.D..

Were the 50 years worth of Directors before Fury less underhandedly secretive?
 
This was what threw me. It seemed so contradictory to the present day conversation between Gonzales and Coulson after they took out Coulson's team.

Gonzales was originally a gung-ho follower of Nick Fury's orders. He had to be "outvoted" by Bobbi and the rest, convinced that they were going to take SHIELD a new direction.

Flash to the scene where Gonzales was talking to a handcuffed Coulson. Gonzales is treating Coulson like he's gone off the reservation, like Coulson used to be a loyal SHIELD agent and used to follow Fury's orders and direction but now couldn't be trusted. Meanwhile, Gonzales is acting like he is being loyal to SHIELD's original purpose and like he's remaining faithful to Fury's orders.

So, either he's lying to himself, lying to Coulson or he's contradicting himself. If Gonzales was that loyal to Fury and had to be convinced by others to go a different direction, then why is he such a true believer now, acting like this is how he always was - a man that feels Fury was wrong to keep such secrets and that Fury had gone off the deep end?

It would seem that Gonzales would show more sympathy for Coulson, since Gonzales was once Coulson.

Or I am missing something.
Gonzales no longer believes in Fury's way of doing things. He sees his faction of SHIELD as representing what SHIELD should be. He sees Coulson as part of Fury's legacy, which he now opposes. That's the long and short of it.
 
Those two really helped build each other's careers, it seems. We probably don't know even a tenth of their history together.
 
Gonzales doesn't trust Coulson because Fury infused him with alien stuff to save his life. He thinks that Coulson might have an alien agenda as a result. He also thinks that Fury must not be thinking straight to even experiment like that. After the battle in New York, it is obvious that some aliens are hugely dangerous, so it isn't that Gonzales is being that unreasonable. Both sides have pretty good reasons to feel the way they do, which makes it more interesting to see how this is going to shake out. Will they be able to work together one day or will one faction have to disappear?
 
Fury ordered the death of the 6000 strong crew of the Iliad.

1. It was an unnecessary order because the Iliad's crew was winning the fight to reclaim the ship.

2. It was an immoral order because the lives of all the S.H.I.E.L.D. Officer's aboard the Iliad were sacred.

3. It was only a necessary order, the murder of 6 thousand crew, because Fury had a scarily immoral/illegal dangerous payload on board that shouldn't have been there if it meant that the crew was ignorant that they were pivoting between suicide and murder to protect it.
 
I wonder how Fury could have ordered the destruction of the Iliad on the day SHIELD fell, given that Fury was believed dead at least three days before the Hydra reveal? Gonzalez indicated that he still believed Fury was dead, implying that Bobbi couldn't have received her orders live.

Perhaps she was given the order to sink the Iliad as a contingency order from Fury, an "In the Event of..." type order?
 
As a rule, the phrase "with a vengeance" doesn't literally mean "seeking revenge." It's just a metaphor. It can mean to do something with violence, but it usually just means going to excess, going all-out, pulling out all the stops, etc. Like, say, "Last year this show had declining viewership, but this year its ratings are resurging with a vengeance." Or something along those lines. It's just used for emphasis.
Yes, everybody knows that. The point isn't about a random cliche in Coulson's dialogue, but the fact that Gonzalez left SHIELD and returned. That is likely to be foreshadowing something, otherwise why bring it up?

I'm sure it will come up again, but it's probably just character pathos.
Possibly, but it seemed too specific to be just a character flourish. I have a feeling something important happened during that little hiatus.
 
I wonder how Fury could have ordered the destruction of the Iliad on the day SHIELD fell, given that Fury was believed dead at least three days before the Hydra reveal? Gonzalez indicated that he still believed Fury was dead, implying that Bobbi couldn't have received her orders live.

Perhaps she was given the order to sink the Iliad as a contingency order from Fury, an "In the Event of..." type order?

Fury was seen in the Triskelion after he officially declared dead,. Gonzalez did say he as following contingency orders but I do thihnk Bobbi knows that Fury is still alive. They would have to know that Fury is still alive, there's no other way Coulson could've gotten the toolbox.
 
Yes, everybody knows that. The point isn't about a random cliche in Coulson's dialogue, but the fact that Gonzalez left SHIELD and returned. That is likely to be foreshadowing something, otherwise why bring it up?

I'm sure it will come up again, but it's probably just character pathos.
Possibly, but it seemed too specific to be just a character flourish. I have a feeling something important happened during that little hiatus.

Also possible. Though one would hope anything along the lines of "recruited by Hydra" is out of the question. Aside from making no sense, they've already pulled that trick doing it again would be very lazy and trite at this point. Doubly so for Simmons.

I wonder how Fury could have ordered the destruction of the Iliad on the day SHIELD fell, given that Fury was believed dead at least three days before the Hydra reveal? Gonzalez indicated that he still believed Fury was dead, implying that Bobbi couldn't have received her orders live.

Perhaps she was given the order to sink the Iliad as a contingency order from Fury, an "In the Event of..." type order?

Fury was seen in the Triskelion after he officially declared dead,. Gonzalez did say he as following contingency orders but I do thihnk Bobbi knows that Fury is still alive. They would have to know that Fury is still alive, there's no other way Coulson could've gotten the toolbox.

Everyone who saw him at the Triskelion aside from Romanoff and Wilson is dead. Unless Bobbi was part of Fury's inner cell with Maria Hill, I doubt she knows. Indeed, nothing she's said or done makes me think such is the case.

I forget, did we learn the super scary secret cargo that was in the Helicarrier?

No but whatever it was it'd have to be bloody nasty to be worth scuttling a ship full of people to keep it out of enemy hands. Fury may be ruthless, but not *that* ruthless, lest we forget this is the man who shot down one of his own planes trying to stop the WSC nuking New York. There's a limit to how much collateral damage he can live with.

The Abomination or the Destroyer are still my best guesses. There's nothing else we've seen so far that can compare *and* potentially be in SHIELD's possession. Of course it could be some other MacGuffin from the comics we just haven't seen in the MCU yet.

Either way, it's a fair bet they still have it aboard and it'll come into play at some point. Maybe even the season finale stinger scene.
 
The Destroyer was reverse engineered into the gun that Coulson shot Loki with in the Avengers. It's unlikely that the cargo is either the Destroyer or The Abomination, a TV show's CGI budget couldn't handle them. It's something that could sunk or destroyed with the ship.
 
<<No but whatever it was it'd have to be bloody nasty to be worth scuttling a ship full of people to keep it out of enemy hands. Fury may be ruthless, but not *that* ruthless, lest we forget this is the man who shot down one of his own planes trying to stop the WSC nuking New York. There's a limit to how much collateral damage he can live with.>>
I think the big difference is saving millions of innocent lives versus saving thousands of soldiers. Also, they were working off pre-made orders from Fury weren't they? He didn't know the situation in real time or that they were taking the ship back.


<<The Abomination or the Destroyer are still my best guesses. There's nothing else we've seen so far that can compare *and* potentially be in SHIELD's possession. Of course it could be some other MacGuffin from the comics we just haven't seen in the MCU yet.>>
That would be awesome! I hadn't thought of that.

The obvious answer would be the Hydra-based weaponry he was developing in the Avengers movie.
 
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