Your opinions on "New Voyages?"

[Sir Rhosis]

After hearing about these things for a couple years, I finally sat down and watched some of one. Watched the Teaser and Act One of "To Serve All My Days." Better than I thought it would be. From what I had heard, I had imagined that these guys would be so bad they'd be unable to stop themselves from sneaking glances directly at the camera ala Pee Wee Herman playing a small role in the film within a film (where Brolin plays P. W.).

Rapelye and Bray have quite the chemistry. I'll check out the rest to see if she and Koenig have that next dinner. Can't be worse than their work on "The Way To Eden."

Can it?

Sir Rhosis

 

[Mallory]

No. And there are a multitude of other productions you might consider if you find that you enjoy this one.

 

[Arlo]

I don't know the financials involved (i.e. if Koenig and the other real actors were paid), but it seems to me the creators of NV could markedly improve things by soliciting serious unknown actors to play all the recurring roles.

This would accomplish 3 things: 1) the episodes would benefit from much better acting 2) these struggling actors would reap some really good free publicity and 3) the creators would be freed up to concentrate more on the production as a whole.

 

[Forbin]

It's a bit disappointing to hear that Fontana doesn't care about continuity! Takes my esteem for her down a notch. How many shows have ever killed a major character and had them reappear in the next episode without explanation? Besides Dallas, I mean.

 

[Outpost4]

If I was Fontana, I'd say and believe the exact same thing. It's a fandom production, not Paramount's, with as much applicability to canon as any fandom kitbash starship design. It's hard enough for them to make a movie without worrying about pissing some other fanboy off.

As far as I'm concerned, if they have a good reason for it, they could make it James S. Kirk.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Arlo said:
I don't know the financials involved (i.e. if Koenig and the other real actors were paid)

Nope.

but it seems to me the creators of NV could markedly improve things by soliciting serious unknown actors to play all the recurring roles.

Which defeats the purpose of doing them! The whole point is for a bunch of ST fans to act in their own episode. And to interact with a famous, professional guest star.

Hey, I was in "Starship Exeter: The Savage Empire" and had a ball, even though my part was filmed solo in Australia and posted off to the US to be edited into the main footage. But please tell me, what fun would I get out of it if my character had been played by an out-of-work professional actor?

This would accomplish 3 things: 1) the episodes would benefit from much better acting 2) these struggling actors would reap some really good free publicity and 3) the creators would be freed up to concentrate more on the production as a whole.

Huh? How is appearing for free good publicity for an actor? They did it for the fun of it - because it was Star Trek, a reunion with old friends and new with Star Trek connections, and a unique experience to work for enthusiastic fans. But the amateur producers don't want to be "freed up". They are having a great time actually being in the thing.

It'd be like me printing a Star Trek fanzine, but instead of writing the stories, drawing the art and typing and editing it, and printing/collating it, as per usual, I would find professional writers, artists, typists, editors and printers to do all the work for me. Totally defeats the purpose of publishing a fanzine.

Forbin said:
It's a bit disappointing to hear that Fontana doesn't care about continuity! Takes my esteem for her down a notch.

Because she took the opportunity to write a "What if...?" story? It was a unique opportunity to do a script that could never have been done on TOS, and a role Koenig could not have played in any official Star Trek.

Comics have been doing "What if...?" stories for decades!

And who said DC Fontana doesn't care about continuity? She wrote memos during TOS to maintain that Spock was - and would remain - an only child, and she fought valiantly to change Shatner's mind about Sybok in ST V, but her complaints fell on deaf ears. Admittedly, her memos were not canonical, but as story editor, she acted as a custodian for the integrity and uniqueness of the Spock character.

Her new story simply asks "What if...?"

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Therin of Andor said:
Huh? How is appearing for free good publicity for an actor?

Trust me - just about any work that gets your face out there in the media is good publicity for a struggling actor. Actors do a lot of free or deferred payment work while trying to "break in" (though the guilds don't look kindly on it).

 

[Therin of Andor]

UWC Defiance said:
Actors do a lot of free or deferred payment work while trying to "break in".

I'm fully aware of that. But the former Star Trek cast members aren't "breaking in". They're just having fun. And so are the amateur actors in fan films.

 

[A beaker full of death]

I think New Voyages catches so much grief for its acting because other elements of the production -- especially the sets and effects -- are so amazing. We all look at the potential there and think "what if..."

 

[Noname Given]

Arlo said:
2) these struggling actors would reap some really good free publicity...

It's clear you don't know how things work in Hollywood with SAG. IF you have a SAG card (or want one); the LAST thing you wantb to do is work in a non-union fan film. IF these were listed as 'student projects' or something similar; then there might be a possibility, but SAG takes a dim view of members who do non-union work; AND also are unlikely to issue a card to someone who participated in something like this (a production that INFRINGES on the intellectual property of a major studio).

Again, for all NV's claims that they have 'permission' from Paramount; I can gaurentee it's some 'word of mouth'; backdoor type of thing (ie nothing in writing) and it's one 'cease and desist' order away from being revoked.

 

[Phantassm]

Forbin said:
It's a bit disappointing to hear that Fontana doesn't care about continuity! Takes my esteem for her down a notch. How many shows have ever killed a major character and had them reappear in the next episode without explanation? Besides Dallas, I mean.

...Oh come on-its a freaking fan film not a paramount production. Trek fans just LOVE to have someone to HATE.

 

[number6]

Phantassm said:
Trek fans just LOVE to have someone to HATE.

That should be the Trek BBS Motto!!

 

[Arlo]

Therin of Andor said:
Which defeats the purpose of doing them! The whole point is for a bunch of ST fans to act in their own episode. And to interact with a famous, professional guest star.

That's all very fine, but at some point it seems to me you'd want to put the product before ego (the needs of the many, and all that).

 

[Arlo]

Noname Given said:
It's clear you don't know how things work in Hollywood with SAG. IF you have a SAG card (or want one); the LAST thing you wantb to do is work in a non-union fan film.

Tell that to both Koenig and Takei, who are SAG.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Noname Given said:

Arlo said:
2) these struggling actors would reap some really good free publicity...

It's clear you don't know how things work in Hollywood with SAG. IF you have a SAG card (or want one); the LAST thing you wantb to do is work in a non-union fan film. IF these were listed as 'student projects' or something similar; then there might be a possibility, but SAG takes a dim view of members who do non-union work

In practice there's a lot of grey area where SAG, AFTRA and Actor's Equity is concerned (particularly the latter) - waivers can be granted for nonpaid work for non-profits and a good amount of the time if you just don't call attention to yourself during production guild representatives will simply choose not to notice. They're actors themselves, understand the interests of unknowns in getting exposure, and balance that against the interests of the guilds and the folks represented by them.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Arlo said:
That's all very fine, but at some point it seems to me you'd want to put the product before ego (the needs of the many, and all that).

And there will be people from these fan films who will seek work in the professional worlds of acting, writing, SPFX, etc. Doesn't mean they'll be able to choose to do Star Trek; they'll have to accept whatever they win auditions for.

But these fan films, for the fan actors, are all about being in them. That they can also be uploaded and shared with the world through the Internet is just a bonus that the kids of the 60s and 70s, using Standard 8 and Super 8 film, just couldn't imagine.

 

[Nerroth]

Interesting how if Paramount/CBS had any sort of problem with NV, it didn't stop Manny Coto et al from borrowing props for the Defiant bridge to use for 'In a Mirror, Darkly'...


As far as NV itself goes, To Serve All My Days was a big step-up from the previous efforts - but I do like Exeter a tad better.


Oh, but what I'd give for either series to get on to ADB and arrange for an episode featuring Star Fleet Universe-native aliens (such as the Lyrans, or Hydrans, or the member races of the ISC - or even the Andromedans!)


Gary

 

[Arlo]

Therin of Andor said:
But these fan films, for the fan actors, are all about being in them. That they can also be uploaded and shared with the world through the Internet is just a bonus that the kids of the 60s and 70s, using Standard 8 and Super 8 film, just couldn't imagine.

Actually, I see the sharing of them online as the main point (would they really, REALLY have done all this work for THEMSELVES? I seriously doubt it).

 

[Therin of Andor]

Arlo said:
Actually, I see the sharing of them online as the main point (would they really, REALLY have done all this work for THEMSELVES? I seriously doubt it).

You're speaking to someone who made and acted, directed and/or wrote many ST fan films in my time, mainly during the 80s. Not episodic ones, but filmed ST skits, gameshows and satires ("Sale of the 23rd Century"; "Perfect Botch", "Tribble Lotto", "The Nearly Wed Game", "Free Maltz", "Starfleet Blankety Blanks", "The Naked Never", "Cometcon Blankety Blanks", "Star Trek IV and Against", etc). Some of these have only really been seen by the people who made them and a few close friends. Only one of us was a trained actor, and he'd never done more than TV commercials and extra work. The writing, editing, videoing, directing, etc was all amateur. None of us had aspirations to break into showbiz. It was a mere sidebar to our hobby of... liking Star Trek. Because it was fun.

We made them on VHS, edited them, screened them for ourselves - and managed to get some of them aired at conventions, or we filmed live in front of a small convention audience. I've lost touch with some of the "stars" of these productions, so I'm reluctant to upload them to YouTube without their permission, but yes, we made them for our own enjoyment.

From my many emails with Jimm and Josh Johnson, of "Starship Exeter", from 1997 till the present day, I can say that they, too, wrote/directed/acted/did costumes and makeup for the first "Starship Exeter" mainly for themselves. The technology to upload whole episodes to the Internet wasn't even available when they started. Neither were the software and hardware they used to add the final SPFX and edits.

The first "Starship Exeter" website had a downloadable script and a series of stills, and for a very long time that's all we thought we were ever going to get, unless we visited Jimm at his house.

 

[Arlo]

Thanks for the info. But just to continue being a partial curmudgeon, let me recast the question this way: Would Koenig, Takei, Windom etc. have done NV if it wasn't offered online for the general public?