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Wonder Woman 2 Anticipation Thread

And they were willing to do more with lesser known characters that the public weren't as familiar with, as opposed to going with the big guns that were a guaranteed draw. Gave them more wiggle room.
Pretty much. Marvel were willing to do the necessary leg work to get the audience to a place where they would activly *want* a big team up movie and approached each instalment leading up to it as it's own thing. After all, there was no guarantee they'd even make it that far, so best to make each movie the best movie they could be (with mixed results in Phase 1.)

With the others like DC, Sony and Universal's stillborn "Dark Universe" it was just too obvious from the get go that they were only interested in money and neither understood nor respected the audience they were attempting to court.
Like the cargo cult of studio franchises, they cobbled together an approximated effigy of what Marvel did in hopes the box office gods would answer they're prayers and bestow upon them all the moneys. Or to give in a slightly less savoury analogy; they showed up to the blind date with a book of cheap pick-up lines and a baggie of used massage oil, fully expecting to score and not fully grasping why that's a problem.

To DC/WB's credit, they seem to have learned their lesson and are now willing to put in the work so that *maybe* 5 or 6 movies down the line they can *perhaps* try a team-up movie again, but in the mean time just focusing on making each individual project worthwhile.
 
Because they chose a man to head it who didn't understand the characters.

That is the key... and really, we're talking Superman.. as well as not having a sense of the genre, as opposed to Kevin Feige, Geoff Johns, or Greg Berlanti.

Snyder could have worked for Batman, or some violent character...but not for Superman. (And let's lay blame on the writers too... for every good thing, there was something that sabotaged it)'.

This, plus they tried to play catch-up with the MCU by rushing straight through to the team up movie after just one stand-alone origin. It's a similar situation Sony blundered into with the 'Amazing Spider-Man' franchise, only they gave up before they could even roll film on their villain team-up movie.

Marvel works where others do not largely because despite a few missteps, the larger connected universe serves as the support structure for the individual stories, not the other way around.

And they were willing to do more with lesser known characters that the public weren't as familiar with, as opposed to going with the big guns that were a guaranteed draw. Gave them more wiggle room.

The thing is... DC already HAS the big group of "Super Friends" in the public consciousness, that they COULD have STARTED that way, and really should have.

Have your Justice League movie (with an origin if needed...not of the characters necessarily as much as why teaming up... they could all have been active already)… 2nd movie be Superman ("easy" to do), 3rd movie can be whoever the standout character was from Justice League, then have Justice League 2 ("fixing" whoever didn't work out in the first film...either by revision or replacement with a new character), Batman , then whichever character that stood out in 2, and so on... Heck, they could have thrown in Ambush Bug in there too, by that time.

The problem with the Amazing Spider Man franchise wasn't just the Spiderverse thing they were doing, but more important, it was obvious that ASM was a money grab to keep the movie rights. The timing NOW for the Holland Spiderman fits just right in as if Tobey Maguire was ready to retire from his role. With ASM, uh-uh. It's unfortunate that Into the Spiderverse is SOny controlled...because that shows there is indeed an appetite to go beyond Peter Parker.
 
So glad Sony has Spiderverse, since they made a better movie than most of the Marvel flicks.

Nah, they just told a usual MCU movie but had Alternate Universe versions of Spidey to stand in for other MCU characters.

Really, take away the stylization of the art in the movie and what are you left with?

To say nothing of Kingpin's idiotic motivations.
 
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Snyder could have worked for Batman, or some violent character...but not for Superman. (And let's lay blame on the writers too... for every good thing, there was something that sabotaged it)'.
I'm not much of a fan of his take on Batman either. Way too Frank Miller.

Here's the thing people like Zach & Frank don't get about Batman: he's not that brutal. 70% of what he does is psychological. He's there to scare the shit out of people as it makes it easier to put them down and keep them down.
Snyder's Batman was outright murderous, clearly killing people left and right and *enjoying it*. That may appeal to hyperactive and slightly bloodthirsty 12 year olds, but it's not what he's about.

Take the scene where he rescues Martha Kent: very cool and well executed...except that at every opportunity it's taken a step too far. Bruce's whole thing is control and self discipline. He's one of the most skilled martial artists on the planet and at this point in his career; a seasoned veteran. He doesn't need to kill or maim anyone. He's that good that he can take out a warehouse full of heavily armed thugs without causing anything worse than a few broken bones and a mild concussion. He's not a murderer or a sadist. That's mostly a reflection of Frank Miller's own twisted little brain.
The thing is... DC already HAS the big group of "Super Friends" in the public consciousness, that they COULD have STARTED that way, and really should have.

Public awareness only really extends to Batman and Superman and all that's really worth is that you can more or less skip over the Crime Alley/Krypon origins. You still need an actual *story* to introduce that version of them to the audience to give them a reason to care. After all, a team-up isn't about people wearing the costumes hanging out with each other, it's about the specific character interactions.
Avengers wouldn't have worked without the lead up movies because more important than their origins; they establish each character's identity and personality.

Since they seemed to have made the decision *after* they'd already made a Superman origin movie, they should have just continued as they were headed. Do a "Man of Steel 2", this time maybe lay in some hints at wider DC universe, or even have Bruce Wayne and/or Diana Prince actually show up in a scene or too, but no Batman or Wonder Woman. Let Clark have the movie to himself and actually build Lex up as an ongoing threat. One who's neck he can't just snap and be done with.

Then you do "post Death in The Family" Batman movie, again, maybe have Clark and/or Diana, or even Lex show up but no other capes beyond perhaps some Daily Planet headlines or news footage. Indeed, the the idea in BvS to show Bruce's perspective of Zod's attack was a good one and something they could have built part of the movie around without needing to make it about killing Superman.

After that you're free to do 'Wonder Woman' and 'The Flash'. At which point you can either jump straight into JL, or do a 'World's Finest' instead of BvS, with Lex as the main antagonist *then* go full JL. You can even keep Apokolips as the "big bad" by layering it into all the other movies as part of the build up.
Steppenwolf would have been ideal as Lex Luthor's "partner" in MoS2 (though I think Desaad or G. Gordon Godfrey would be a better fit.) Intergang being puppeteered by Granny Goodness would have worked for 'The Flash'. And the Old Gods/New Gods dynamic is perfect for Wonder Woman; hell the movie as is would work perfectly fine, you just switch out the reveal to show that Ares really is dead and David Thewlis's character is actually Steppenwolf.

That way. by the time you get to JL, not only are the heroes established, so are the villains.

Really, take away the stylization of the art in the movie and what are you left with?
Besides a well told and heartfelt story about embracing self-identity, the pressures of expectations, responsibility in a position of power, what it's like to feel like an outsider or an "other", how life choices and their consequences can define a person? Well, an awesome soundtrack, obviously! ;)

BTW: saying "take away the visuals from a movie" is like saying "take away the prose from a novel", "take away the canvas from a painting" or "remove the spinal cord of an Olympic gymnast". It's a faulty premise on which to assess merit as it's an integral component of the whole.
To say nothing of Kingpin's idiotic motivations.
His motivations weren't idiotic: he lost his family and wanted them back. Sure, he literally drove them away to their deaths and his method of bringing them back could have obliterated the universe in the process but then he *is* a super-villain, no?
 
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I think it's safe to say that from here on out, what few DC movies that still have any kind of inter-connectivity (probably not many) are just going to flat out ignore BvS & JL.

Well, the MCU pretty much ignores its failures as well. Incredible Hulk is the best example.
 
This, plus they tried to play catch-up with the MCU by rushing straight through to the team up movie after just one stand-alone origin. It's a similar situation Sony blundered into with the 'Amazing Spider-Man' franchise, only they gave up before they could even roll film on their villain team-up movie.

Marvel works where others do not largely because despite a few missteps, the larger connected universe serves as the support structure for the individual stories, not the other way around.

Oh, please. They didn't rush anything. JL was the DCEU's 5th film. The Avengers was Marvel's 6th. And nobody complained that the Guardians of the Galaxy didn't have individual films. BvS, SS, and JL each suffered from progressively greater interference from executives.

Marvel's works because they found a formula that they could repeat over and over again for their prime audience, middleschoolers. DC aimed towards an older age group and tinkered with its formula, eliciting howls from purists. Looks like, however, with Aquaman's and Joker's 1 billion+, that the new brain trust at WB might finally take a back seat to the talent, which is all good, really, regardless of how DC moves forwards.
 
Well, the MCU pretty much ignores its failures as well. Incredible Hulk is the best example.

Many subtle nods to the Incredible Hulk were part of the overall MCU. Hell, even a deleted scene was refered to in Avengers, when Banner talks about him wanting to commit suicide but Hulk didn't let him.
 
Many subtle nods to the Incredible Hulk were part of the overall MCU. Hell, even a deleted scene was refered to in Avengers, when Banner talks about him wanting to commit suicide but Hulk didn't let him.

Not to mention Thunderbolt Ross coming back for Civil War. And Infinity War. And he's in Black Widow apparently. And seems to be sticking around as a significant character for the time being.
 
Not to mention Thunderbolt Ross coming back for Civil War. And Infinity War. And he's in Black Widow apparently. And seems to be sticking around as a significant character for the time being.

Exactly. I think a lot of people feel it's weird that Betty was never mentioned, which I'm ok with. I mean, that was a tough break-up for Bruce, I can understand him not talking about it and wanting to move on.
 
Exactly. I think a lot of people feel it's weird that Betty was never mentioned, which I'm ok with. I mean, that was a tough break-up for Bruce, I can understand him not talking about it and wanting to move on.

Yeah. I feel like the casting for TIH just wasn't really in line with the direction the MCU ultimately wanted, which is why we got Ruffalo and Betty/Liv Tyler was never mentioned again. But the movie itself is referenced a fair amount. Arguably more than some other MCU films (IM2 comes to mind).
 
Yeah. I feel like the casting for TIH just wasn't really in line with the direction the MCU ultimately wanted, which is why we got Ruffalo and Betty/Liv Tyler was never mentioned again. But the movie itself is referenced a fair amount. Arguably more than some other MCU films (IM2 comes to mind).

Indeed!!! The only reference we ever got was that Hammer played a small cameo in on of the Marvel Shorts. And that Tony created clean energy. I think that's it.
 
Marvel's works because they found a formula that they could repeat over and over again for their prime audience, middleschoolers. DC aimed towards an older age group

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. The DCEU seemed more aimed at Edgelord Teenagers while the MCU Approach is an "All-Ages" approach for kids to adults.
 
Besides a well told and heartfelt story about embracing self-identity, the pressures of expectations, responsibility in a position of power, what it's like to feel like an outsider or an "other", how life choices and their consequences can define a person?

How are these things not in the MCU themselves?

His motivations weren't idiotic: he lost his family and wanted them back. Sure, he literally drove them away to their deaths and his method of bringing them back could have obliterated the universe in the process but then he *is* a super-villain, no?

I see folks praising Kingpin's motivations but decrying ones like Zemo and others, it just boggles the mind.
 
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. The DCEU seemed more aimed at Edgelord Teenagers while the MCU Approach is an "All-Ages" approach for kids to adults.

Some adults who find themselves attracted to entertainment targeted at a family audience do seem to like to label anything more challenging than "All-Ages" works in whatever negative term sounds cool to them at the given moment. 'Edgelord' is a particularly popular catch-all phrase to label people who aren't just interested in unchallenging entertainment. I find labeling people who enjoy art that challenges in ways them in ways that family entertainment does not with such toxic terms to be rather antisocial in intent.
 
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I find labeling people who enjoy art that challenges in ways them in ways that family entertainment does not with such toxic terms to be rather antisocial in intent.

About as much as people who disregard anything that isn't Hard R as "childish"?
 
I see folks praising Kingpin's motivations but decrying ones like Zemo and others, it just boggles the mind.
I think you're confusing "motivations" with "actions". Magneto was a damn holocaust survivor. Are you going to suggest surviving a Nazi extermination camp is an "idiotic motivation" too?
 
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