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Wonder Woman 2 Anticipation Thread

Using Captain America: The First Avenger as an example, the parallel would be like having Cap still defeat the Red Skull, but then having Peggy be the one who crashes the long-range bomber into the Arctic. It's pretty clear that such an arrangement would have undercut Cap's role as the hero. The implication of @Marynator's criticism, as I understand it, is that WW1 not having been governed by a similar consideration indicates a double-standard, one worth drawing attention to.
I think I'd compare to Winter Soldier, say like in that movie Steve only cared about finding Bucky, and everything about trying to oust Hydra from Shield was all being driven by Black Widow, like if she was leading their team in everything and Cap was just there to do most of the fighting and try to redeem Bucky. But he got to do both, and Nat was there to help him. If Diana was taking on this mission to stop Germany's secret weapons thing, and she was making all their decisions, and Steve was just helping her out with intelligence information and advice, I feel that would've been very different, but that's not at all what happened, right?
 
I feel differently, because Diana had no interest at all in their mission, she just wanted to find Ares, but everything about stopping this weapons development was entirely Steve's story. He was their group leader and everything, and Diana was so very extremely lucky Ares decided to come to her at the end, otherwise she would've totally been pointless to their mission except being their strongest fighter, but everything else was really driven by Chris. At least that's really how I felt when I was watching her movie.

TO me this would feel more like Steve's story if the movie opened on what he was doing before he took off in the airplane. The early stuff though with Diana as a kid though and seeing her backstory and perspective on the outside world sort of set's up this story as her narrative. He does bring her the mission and she joins in but it's not just about going to help Steve. It's also to help people and also get justice for all the people who were killed when the bad guys attack her home.

Jason
 
I think that @Marynator has made great points about WW sharing the heroic spotlight with Steve in WW1 and about that being a viable reason for criticizing the film. It's definitely reasonable to wonder why the female superhero can't be the centerpiece of the heroics in her own film, especially since that's what the male superheroes tend to be in theirs. The fact that no one seems to have brought this up before on the board, certainly not that I recall, and despite it sounding so self-evident in retrospect, makes the points all the greater.

No one has brought it up before because its a bad, if not misapplied point not to be found in the film. As noted yesterday, in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, supporting characters like Fury, Black Widow and Falcon all had their strong moments and an impact on the story in a film that was about all about Cap (note: it was not Cap who killed Alexander Pierce--the real villain of the film), yet the fact that Fury and company played their strong parts did not take anything away from Cap at all. The same applies to Wonder Woman, where realistically, she could not be in every conflict save for the main one against Ares as seen in the film. Trevor's heroics served a very obvious purpose others seem to miss--it is his death and the experiences of a world rejecting peace that sends her into the reclusive mode set up in her future in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. I believe some are looking for some sort of problem in the handling of Wonder Woman as the lead in her own film where no problem exists.
 
No one has brought it up before because its a bad, if not misapplied point not to be found in the film. As noted yesterday, in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, supporting characters like Fury, Black Widow and Falcon all had their strong moments and an impact on the story in a film that was about all about Cap (note: it was not Cap who killed Alexander Pierce--the real villain of the film), yet the fact that Fury and company played their strong parts did not take anything away from Cap at all. The same applies to Wonder Woman, where realistically, she could not be in every conflict save for the main one against Ares as seen in the film. Trevor's heroics served a very obvious purpose others seem to miss--it is his death and the experiences of a world rejecting peace that sends her into the reclusive mode set up in her future in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. I believe some are looking for some sort of problem in the handling of Wonder Woman as the lead in her own film where no problem exists.

I disagree that it's Trevor story but I do see why people might think that. Like I mentioned above I really do think it comes down less to his heroic's more than the fact that her big heroic moment she is suppose to have was simply not written as well. They stuck he with the ole standard action bit where the Hero fights a over-the top CGI cartoon. If she had a moment like the moment where she drawls all the bad guys fire in the war scene earlier in the film then I think people would see this ending much differently.

Jason
 
If Diana was taking on this mission to stop Germany's secret weapons thing, and she was making all their decisions, and Steve was just helping her out with intelligence information and advice, I feel that would've been very different, but that's not at all what happened, right?
It's been observed on the board before (sorry, I forget exactly by whom in what thread, though perhaps by multiple people; in a DISCO thread maybe?) that the events that are depicted in a story are the result of choices made by writers as to what to depict. Writers have to own everything that happens in their stories. There's no falling back on the idea that certain events must occur; things happen only because the events shown are what the writers want to be under consideration.

With that in mind, saying that Steve had to sacrifice himself at the climax of WW1 to teach Diana something about the goodness in mankind is a rationalization. As I said upthread, "... there are any number of ways in which Steve could have proven to Diana by self-sacrifice that there is moral strength in mankind in addition to corruptibility." Ergo, if the priority is to show WW doing all the heavy lifting of heroics, then to accomplish that, they'd simply have to formulate another way for Steve to do it.

Here's a way it could have gone. Simply have Steve take a bullet fired at WW by Sir Patrick himself. Diana's back is turned to Sir Patrick because she doesn't fear him. But Steve has already come to suspect him due to some slip Sir Patrick has made earlier or even just before or because Steve can see the mask coming off just a little bit earlier than Diana can because Steve, as a person, has more experience dealing with people than Diana does. Diana gains insight into the human condition, because she herself has been fooled by evil. Plus, Steve's sacrifice echoes Antiope's from back on Themyscira (Paradise Island), so Diana sees that men can be just as good as Amazons. Diana can redirect some of Ares' lightening to destroy the bomber, and then she can redirect the follow-up attack powered by his outrage back into him, killing him for good. Voila. Steve's still dead, and Diana can withdraw from the world as before. Plus, there are a zillion other ways to square this circle besides this.

Now, clearly, I didn't have as big an issue with WW1 as you (@Marynator) did about these things, or I would have noticed the issue before, myself. However, I always thought that Steve's self-sacrificing heroics were trite (their triteness is a general problem that transcends WW1), and I never liked the final battle with Ares. Of course seeing things from other perspectives is part of what I get out of discussion.

No one has brought it up before because its a bad, if not misapplied point not to be found in the film. As noted yesterday, in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, supporting characters like Fury, Black Widow and Falcon all had their strong moments and an impact on the story in a film that was about all about Cap (note: it was not Cap who killed Alexander Pierce--the real villain of the film), yet the fact that Fury and company played their strong parts did not take anything away from Cap at all. The same applies to Wonder Woman, where realistically, she could not be in every conflict save for the main one against Ares as seen in the film. Trevor's heroics served a very obvious purpose others seem to miss--it is his death and the experiences of a world rejecting peace that sends her into the reclusive mode set up in her future in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. I believe some are looking for some sort of problem in the handling of Wonder Woman as the lead in her own film where no problem exists.
The MCU movies represent a shift away from lone superhero films anyway, because in most cases other superheroes exist in each film besides the nominal main character. If Superman, Batman, or Aquaman had been in WW1 (the WWI part), I'd expect them to have done some of the heroic heavy lifting. But Steve Trevor isn't a superhero.
 
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My issue with Wonder Woman and Steve taking over is she didn't have any concern at all about the weapons, she was very single-minded in trying to find Ares, and didn't even really do that at all, she just got lucky Ares decided to come right to her at the end of the story. Most of their plot was about Steve's spy mission and trying to stop those weapons, which was totally his story and Diana was tagging along. You don't see anything like this in pretty much any other super hero movie, yes sometimes characters have their own arcs definitely of course, but not driving the main story like this, and having the big heroic sacrifice.
 
From Gal's twitter:
vUhLA4T.jpg

Shiny!

If they have to set it in the past to pull these things off so be it. I'd probably have gone with late 70s rather than 84 but whatever. I guess it's hard when you're in the moment but it's hard to see people 20-30 years from now to be nostalgic for these times though I'm sure I will be when I am old man then.
 
Did they put a bronzer on Gal Gadot/Wonder Woman? She's looking really tanned

Set videos
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Looks like Wonder Woman is injured

Diana and Steve have an argument

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Invisible vehicle confirmed!

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;)
 
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I wonder what the origin of the invisible plane or whatever that is will be here? It's always seemed a bit odd to me that the Amazons, who still seemed to more or less be at the same technological level they were back in Ancient Greece, had somehow been able to create an invisible jet.
 
From Gal's twitter:
vUhLA4T.jpg

Outstanding, the costume colours are wonderful ; wonder what is made of in real life ,
WW 1 was my absolute favorite DCEU so far and I think the character is just perfectly written, cast, and directed. Even her introduction in BvS was great, and she was one of the highlights of Justice League . Can't wait for more Wonder Woman, I hope we do get a modern version, the period pieces are cool but after two I'd like a current day take.
 
I wonder what the origin of the invisible plane or whatever that is will be here? It's always seemed a bit odd to me that the Amazons, who still seemed to more or less be at the same technological level they were back in Ancient Greece, had somehow been able to create an invisible jet.
In the comics from the Golden and Silver Ages the Amazons were more scientifically advanced than Man's World. The modern take, not so much.
 
In the comics from the Golden and Silver Ages the Amazons were more scientifically advanced than Man's World. The modern take, not so much.

So it was a "Black Panther" type of situation? Any chance they might be advanced with tech knowledge but simply choose to live a more basic lifestyle which I admit gives bad flashbacks to the aliens from "Star Trek:Insurrection."

Jason
 
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