Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by David Hanley, Feb 21, 2021.
In fairness, DS9 had Sisko as a religious icon. There was no way they couldn't explore religion.
DSC and DS9 are my two favorite post-TOS franchise series.
It ain’t because they are different from each other.
I feel like Niners and Disco Fans should be teaming up against B&B Trek. That, to me, is what feels right.
Ira Behr hated having to put up with Rick Berman and undercut him whenever he could. I'm sure there had to be more than a few times when Ira wanted to tell Rick Berman, "Fuck You!" When Ron Moore broke off and made BSG, and you watch it, and you listen to the DVD Commentaries (which I did in the 2000s), he was also giving Berman Trek the big FU for the way things ended up.
And now here we have Star Trek, in the form of Discovery and Picard, completely free from Rick. It's not a time to bash. It's a time to rejoice.
I've never been Team Rick. So the moment we had a Star Trek series without him, I was all over it. For me, it was like a dream come true. Plus DSC and PIC are native to the serialized and streaming era. They didn't have to become that way. They were that way from the beginning.
Disco's five or six classes have appeared in the 23rd, 24th and 32nd centuries, though. If there's anyone left who watches Trek just for the ships they probably had a stroke.
One in a more adult than teen angsty way...
One more than the other.
Just goes to show how important execution is, I guess.
Granted, and that's awesome and overdue...I just wish it was in a better show (though season 3 has me slightly hopeful).
Ironically a subject I could happily never think about again.
Congrats; good luck.
Picard to me oddly feels much more a "child" of DS9 than Discovery does. Ironically since it's a series explicitly built around Stewart as the lead, I feel like most of the supporting characters (other than Elnor, who was useless) were far more well-rounded - that it felt much more an "ensemble" show than Discovery. The series touched upon heavy themes involving mortality, belief, xenophobia, and the perfect being the enemy of the good without coming up with any pat TNG-style answers. And while I didn't like it, Stardust City Rag was pretty much explicitly a DS9-style comedic caper (bookended by two brutal murders).
I can't think of much that DS9 and DIS have in common. DIS reminds me more VOY to be honest.
1. The bomber gap. If Star Fleet Builds more warships so does everyone else.
2. No ones figured out in the 24th century how finite Dilithium is, or have they?
Yes and no.
Adult --> The War is horrible and it's taking its toll on people. See the sixth and seventh seasons of DS9. Nog has PTSD. That took on more meaning when I had friends who joined the service and then were sent out to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I see what it did to some of them.
Teen --> Odo getting jealous of Kira and Shakaar being a couple and Odo wrecking his quarters because of it. Want to talk about angst? The episode was "Crossfire", it aired during the fourth season, I was 16 at the time -- let me repeat, sixteen -- and even I thought that was ridiculous and over-the-top.
Feeling kind of drowsy and out-of-it, but otherwise doing okay. I'm dead-convinced I got Covid back in August without even knowing it. Long story.
Picard, IMO, is more like continuing elements of TNG (plus Seven of Nine) in the DS9 style but with DSC visual style and the "one arc per season" model. Season 1 also had the added bonus of making up for the TNG Movies, but I assume from Season 2 on, the show will be passed that part of it.
I've said before I'm teetering on saying I like PIC better than DSC, but I want to see how the second season plays out before I go right out and decide that. Shows can either get much better or much worse after a first season, as we know.
I like DSC's first season the best. And I feel like all the rough edges -- rough edges that I liked -- were removed by the end of the third. So what I think about DSC, heading into these later seasons, has taken a slight bit of a haircut.
EDITED TO ADD: I think I sounded very pissed off a few days ago. Sorry about that. I had other stuff going on and I'm pretty sure it unintentionally spilled over into my posts.
I feel a similar way (also with possible mood irritability spreading in to my posts). But, honestly watching how Discovery has moved from Season 1 to Season 3 there is an aspect that has been reduced in terms of what I did like. So, I approach Season 4 with a lot more caution.
Anyone who watches Trek "just for the ships" should be used to it. Reused ships is a proud Trek tradition, even when they switched to CG for late DS9/Voyager and Enterprise there were plenty of reused ship designs. If it never bothered you before, there's no reason it should bother you now.
And yes, I am aware there is an alarming amount of crying over the ship designs from Disco's first season showing up in Picard and in the 32nd century.
That was a pretty angsty episode, but it was an exception, not the rule.
While I'm the exact opposite: season 3 has me cautiously optimistic.
I would say that the 'hate' for the show is principally because the quality of story telling does not really merit much praise. I think reactions to the show, like most everything nowadays, are a reflection of personal politics. Those who consider themselves 'woke' or generally lean left more than likely defend the show and are blind (willfully or not) to it's flaws. Those who lean in the opposite direction will not care for the themes being emphasized.
Personally, I don't really care for the characters or the writing. I bailed after season 2.
People seem to nitpick the newer trek, a lot more then the older. It's like a weird phenomenon that I do not understand amongst the fandom.
Especially when it comes to TNG, because holy shit is that show dated.
Oh, ENT got picked to pieces when it was on the air. Trust me. I was here in the forums when it was first on and many of the same critiques and arguments being made against DSC, PIC and LD right now were used against ENT back in 2001 and 2002.
This makes me chuckle, sensibly.
I was here and took part in some of that criticism myself. My recollection was that much of it was based on several key things:
knee jerk rejection of 'prequel-itis' coupled with the perception that they were violating canon by inventing a 'new' previously unknown Enterprise.
fatigue with the Berman (and Braga) era production standard
The design of the ship ('Akira-prise')
Perceptions started to shift when Manny Coto became more central to the production in season 3 and especially 4. I'm not sure i cared as much about inventing a new Enterprise so much as I was hoping that they would leverage the era to show the founding of the Federation in interesting ways. I think they largely squandered that opportunity in season 1, 2 and even 3. Only in season 4 did they get going, sadly too late to save the show.
All that said it was not necessarily a case of bad writing - just that it had become formulaic in many ways. Discovery on the whole just simply does not tell any interesting stories IMO
It's hardly unique to Star Trek fandom. Doctor Who fandom is much the same way. Indeed, it was a running joke back in the 1980s that DW fans would hate the new episodes when they aired, but come back to them five years later and judge them to be pretty good and better than the unfair assessment they were given back in the day and that they are much better than the pure crap that's currently airing.
The mid-1980s episodes of Doctor Who are still pretty awful. Some complaints are legitimate.
I've never once judged a show on it's political messaging or leaning. There are plenty of shows that aren't aligned with my own values and sensibilities in terms of their "messaging."
I either like a show because it's entertaining, or I don't. And there are shows that are wildly entertaining that don't "send a message" that's aligned with where I lean. I don't really care...any more than I care if I have friends or coworkers who have a different way of thinking.
Unlike so very many people these days, I don't need things to be aligned with my thinking to find value in them and not find them offensive.
But....I think you're right to some extent here, unfortunately.
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