Why the hate for Disco?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by David Hanley, Feb 21, 2021.

  1. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Dominion War probably forced Starfleet to open new orbital construction facilities simply to make up for even a portion of what it lost in less than three years. So I could see Admirals going: "Yeah, fifty of this one ship might seem like overkill given how young the class is but this way we won't be caught with our pants down if the Romulan refugees, resurgent Breen or a new splinter group of Klingons decide to come looking for the Federation, blaming us for what state they're in."
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. I would find it a more unbelievable idea that they would go "Shrug...I guess we'll just keep making ships at a slower rate and not possibly respond to this crisis."
     
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  3. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    U.S. ship construction stayed much higher than it was in 1940 when it came to the postwar and Cold War period. We learned lessons about not being ready for Pearl Harbor and the war in the Pacific and though our production rate was never again the same as between 1942 and 1945 we were far more ready for international crises after the Second World War because we had a much bigger and more lethal peacetime navy.
     
  4. dupersuper

    dupersuper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    While I find people equating DS9 and Discovery just because they're both "dark" to be frustrating.
     
  5. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dark and serialized.
    Having minorities in lead roles.
    Aren't afraid to change their status quos.
    Aren't afraid of having shady characters with disturbing pasts.
    Aren't afraid to shake up the Quadrant or Galaxy.

    The two shows have more in common than Niners who don't like Discovery want to admit.

    Two areas that DSC ups DS9 are:
    DS9 was mostly a sausage-fest, while DSC has far more female representation.
    Free from Rick Berman's grip (and yes, it was a grip), DSC can freely show LGBTQIA.

    One area that DS9 ups DSC is:
    DS9 delved into religion as much as it could, while DSC barely gave it lip-service.

    I can go on if you like, but I have to get a Covid Vaccination soon. Don't want to miss the appointment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  6. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    In fairness, DS9 had Sisko as a religious icon. There was no way they couldn't explore religion.
     
  7. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    DSC and DS9 are my two favorite post-TOS franchise series.


    It ain’t because they are different from each other.
     
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  8. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I feel like Niners and Disco Fans should be teaming up against B&B Trek. That, to me, is what feels right.

    Ira Behr hated having to put up with Rick Berman and undercut him whenever he could. I'm sure there had to be more than a few times when Ira wanted to tell Rick Berman, "Fuck You!" When Ron Moore broke off and made BSG, and you watch it, and you listen to the DVD Commentaries (which I did in the 2000s), he was also giving Berman Trek the big FU for the way things ended up.

    And now here we have Star Trek, in the form of Discovery and Picard, completely free from Rick. It's not a time to bash. It's a time to rejoice.

    I've never been Team Rick. So the moment we had a Star Trek series without him, I was all over it. For me, it was like a dream come true. Plus DSC and PIC are native to the serialized and streaming era. They didn't have to become that way. They were that way from the beginning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  9. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Disco's five or six classes have appeared in the 23rd, 24th and 32nd centuries, though. If there's anyone left who watches Trek just for the ships they probably had a stroke.
     
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  10. dupersuper

    dupersuper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One in a more adult than teen angsty way...

    One more than the other.

    Just goes to show how important execution is, I guess.

    Granted, and that's awesome and overdue...I just wish it was in a better show (though season 3 has me slightly hopeful).

    Ironically a subject I could happily never think about again.

    Congrats; good luck.
     
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  11. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Picard to me oddly feels much more a "child" of DS9 than Discovery does. Ironically since it's a series explicitly built around Stewart as the lead, I feel like most of the supporting characters (other than Elnor, who was useless) were far more well-rounded - that it felt much more an "ensemble" show than Discovery. The series touched upon heavy themes involving mortality, belief, xenophobia, and the perfect being the enemy of the good without coming up with any pat TNG-style answers. And while I didn't like it, Stardust City Rag was pretty much explicitly a DS9-style comedic caper (bookended by two brutal murders).

    I can't think of much that DS9 and DIS have in common. DIS reminds me more VOY to be honest.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    2 things.

    1. The bomber gap. If Star Fleet Builds more warships so does everyone else.

    2. No ones figured out in the 24th century how finite Dilithium is, or have they?
     
  13. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes and no.

    Adult --> The War is horrible and it's taking its toll on people. See the sixth and seventh seasons of DS9. Nog has PTSD. That took on more meaning when I had friends who joined the service and then were sent out to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I see what it did to some of them.

    Teen --> Odo getting jealous of Kira and Shakaar being a couple and Odo wrecking his quarters because of it. Want to talk about angst? The episode was "Crossfire", it aired during the fourth season, I was 16 at the time -- let me repeat, sixteen -- and even I thought that was ridiculous and over-the-top.

    Feeling kind of drowsy and out-of-it, but otherwise doing okay. I'm dead-convinced I got Covid back in August without even knowing it. Long story.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  14. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Picard, IMO, is more like continuing elements of TNG (plus Seven of Nine) in the DS9 style but with DSC visual style and the "one arc per season" model. Season 1 also had the added bonus of making up for the TNG Movies, but I assume from Season 2 on, the show will be passed that part of it.

    I've said before I'm teetering on saying I like PIC better than DSC, but I want to see how the second season plays out before I go right out and decide that. Shows can either get much better or much worse after a first season, as we know.

    I like DSC's first season the best. And I feel like all the rough edges -- rough edges that I liked -- were removed by the end of the third. So what I think about DSC, heading into these later seasons, has taken a slight bit of a haircut.

    EDITED TO ADD: I think I sounded very pissed off a few days ago. Sorry about that. I had other stuff going on and I'm pretty sure it unintentionally spilled over into my posts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I feel a similar way (also with possible mood irritability spreading in to my posts). But, honestly watching how Discovery has moved from Season 1 to Season 3 there is an aspect that has been reduced in terms of what I did like. So, I approach Season 4 with a lot more caution.
     
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  16. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Anyone who watches Trek "just for the ships" should be used to it. Reused ships is a proud Trek tradition, even when they switched to CG for late DS9/Voyager and Enterprise there were plenty of reused ship designs. If it never bothered you before, there's no reason it should bother you now.

    And yes, I am aware there is an alarming amount of crying over the ship designs from Disco's first season showing up in Picard and in the 32nd century.
     
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  17. dupersuper

    dupersuper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That was a pretty angsty episode, but it was an exception, not the rule.

    While I'm the exact opposite: season 3 has me cautiously optimistic.
     
  18. zenophite

    zenophite Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would say that the 'hate' for the show is principally because the quality of story telling does not really merit much praise. I think reactions to the show, like most everything nowadays, are a reflection of personal politics. Those who consider themselves 'woke' or generally lean left more than likely defend the show and are blind (willfully or not) to it's flaws. Those who lean in the opposite direction will not care for the themes being emphasized.
    Personally, I don't really care for the characters or the writing. I bailed after season 2.
     
  19. nafeasonto

    nafeasonto Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    People seem to nitpick the newer trek, a lot more then the older. It's like a weird phenomenon that I do not understand amongst the fandom.

    Especially when it comes to TNG, because holy shit is that show dated.
     
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  20. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, ENT got picked to pieces when it was on the air. Trust me. I was here in the forums when it was first on and many of the same critiques and arguments being made against DSC, PIC and LD right now were used against ENT back in 2001 and 2002.
     
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