Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?

[BillJ]

That’s 1000% valid — but positions like that (“This doesn’t work for me”) I totally respect. Positions like (“This sucks, not like the shows I liked! Because it is bad!”), I generally can’t.

The weird thing about SNW, for me, is if I watch an episode, I'm usually perfectly fine with it. Nothing that is really offensively bad. Problem being, as soon as I turn it off, its gone. Out of sight, out of mind. Nothing that drives me to go back to it.

I think, for me, the problem is in the premise. With this supposedly being "Prime" there's no excitement to the danger they put various characters through. Between knowing the fates of the characters and the "dot the i's and cross the t's" storytelling, there's just no magic to any of it, nothing that drives my imagination. That and I think Star Trek: Early Voyages did the concept better.

 

[fireproof78]

I abide by the Fry ratio.

 

[BillJ]

I think most of it is garbage.

But when you call them garbage you really make yourself look like someone with an axe to grind.

 

[Tallguy]

Strange New Worlds has fan issues: ill say it. if you have a problem with SNW, the problem is probably inherent in you. Some people just like to complain. Some people wanted a time machine to make more episodes exactly like whatever period of time in their lives they liked the best and connect to Star Trek. it wasn't going to happen. This is the show you wanted, people. If you're too dumb to remember that, it's not anyone else's fault.

I love SNW, but SNW 1 & 2 > 3.

SFA: a good show marketed badly. People will claim they always liked this one 20 years later when a new generation finds it and wasn't told they're supposed to hate it.

Was the marketing that far off of the show? It was largely contemporary kids going to Space School. And they acted like kids (on TV anyway). If the very idea gives you the heebie jeebies then I don't know what marketing was going to convince you to tune in.

I liked it.

 

[Dukhat]

Even my favorite Trek show of all, DS9, still had some clunker episodes. So nothing’s perfect.

 

[BillJ]

Even my favorite Trek show of all, DS9, still had some clunker episodes. So nothing’s perfect.

It had a lot of them. Every Trek show does. I think my disappointment comes from the same issues exist now, even though the productions are fed more money than ever for less than half the product. I really was expecting a golden age for Trek when this was all announced a decade ago, and it just ended up being more of the same.

 

[XCV330]

The show I wanted had less hijinks and love triangles and bullshit space magic and bad comedy and more Star Trek.

So not TOS

 

[XCV330]

Um, no. That’s like saying that if you have a problem with the person currently running the government, the problem is probably inherent in you. Which is not the case.

But I agree with all the other stuff you said.

I thought I was being edgy. I was so edgy

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

So not TOS

I think the SNW writers were more influenced by Buffy and Angel. Which is a problem because those series were about supernatural weirdness, magic and teenagers being teenagers, and they had actual wit.

 

[FredH]

So not TOS

To be fair, the show I probably always most wanted would have been something in the spirit of TMP (by which I do not mean Phase II), which arguably would’ve been pretty different from TOS too. (I also realize it would have died in the ratings.)

 

[CoveTom]

But when you call them garbage you really make yourself look like someone with an axe to grind.

Why? What does that even mean? You've never watched a show and thought it was garbage? I can't have the opinion that the Kurtzman shows are really bad?

Everyone around here dunks on Picard all the time and that seems to be okay, but go after any of the other Kurtzman shows and somehow you've got some sort of agenda. I don't understand it.

 

[BillJ]

You've never watched a show and thought it was garbage?

I just think it is more constructive to actually state the issues than throw an insult. Something that I still sometimes struggle to do. When I call something garbage, I'm usually just itching for a reaction. Which is poor on my part.

I think we should all try to be better.

 

[Birb-of-Prey]

Even my favorite Trek show of all, DS9, still had some clunker episodes. So nothing’s perfect.

The format of the old shows allowed them to more easily recover from missteps, though.

 

[CoveTom]

The format of the old shows allowed them to more easily recover from missteps, though.

Agreed. I realize making 26 episodes a year was an enormous grind, but when you only do 10 episodes a year, there is less room for experimentation and variety and less tolerance for missteps. I, personally, like the traditional network schedule paradigm better than the modern streaming approach to seasons of a show.

 

[CoveTom]

I just think it is more constructive to actually state the issues than throw an insult. Something that I still sometimes struggle to do. When I call something garbage, I'm usually just itching for a reaction. Which is poor on my part.

I think we should all try to be better.

I guess I just don't view it as an insult. It wasn't directed at Alex Kurtzman personally. I don't know the man. He may be a very good person and I'm sure that he is trying to produce a good product. His approach just does not match my tastes, and I think that the shows he has produced have, by and large, been quite bad, IMHO. But I don't think having a strong opinion about a show is the same as hurling an insult at a person.

 

[FredH]

The format of the old shows allowed them to more easily recover from missteps, though.

In that there was a weekly reset, sure.

 

[XCV330]

I think the SNW writers were more influenced by Buffy and Angel. Which is a problem because those series were about supernatural weirdness, magic and teenagers being teenagers, and they had actual wit.

having never actually watched those shows, I can't have an opinion.

 

[XCV330]

To be fair, the show I probably always most wanted would have been something in the spirit of TMP (by which I do not mean Phase II), which arguably would’ve been pretty different from TOS too. (I also realize it would have died in the ratings.)

TMP had all the TOS elements: a god-like being who can't understand humanity, a scantily dressed deuteragonist who gets killed before they have to develop her character very much, exploration, coming up with a cunning plan between the big three to resolve things, Scotty fixing things, Uhura trying to communicate with things, Chekhov suffering, McCoy as the Greek chorus, Spock being Spock. Sulu pressing buttons.

It's very TOS to me. Just different visuals. It's a much better redo of The Changeling. If Phase II had offered more , I think it would have been great.

 

[Steve Roby]

I just think it is more constructive to actually state the issues than throw an insult. Something that I still sometimes struggle to do. When I call something garbage, I'm usually just itching for a reaction. Which is poor on my part.

I think we should all try to be better.

I guess I just don't view it as an insult. It wasn't directed at Alex Kurtzman personally. I don't know the man. He may be a very good person and I'm sure that he is trying to produce a good product. His approach just does not match my tastes, and I think that the shows he has produced have, by and large, been quite bad, IMHO. But I don't think having a strong opinion about a show is the same as hurling an insult at a person.

Kurtzman's not the only person involved. He's not even in the room here. However, there are some of us on this board who like what you don't like. You can say it's garbage. Alternatively, you can say you don't like it. One of those statements might be perceived as insulting the taste and intelligence of the people who disagree with you.

Looking at sixty years of Star Trek -- and I've been watching for more than fifty of them -- overall, I really like Star Trek. I like the whole big mess of it. Not equally, of course. But while I was never a big Voyager fan, for example, pretty much any season of Voyager was better than TNG's first. I didn't think much of Enterprise but when Star Trek Beyond turned out to have ties to that era, I got a kick out of it. It's all one big thing from "The Cage" to the remaining seasons of Starfleet Academy and Strange New Worlds, and the bad moments are spread through the whole thing. So are the good moments. And there's more of the good.

Edit: also, in one form or another, I've bought (or, for the most recent items, have on my Amazon wishlist) every officially licenced Star Trek novel and comic. Every series. Because Star Trek is fun and more fun is better.

 

[Set Harth]

in one form or another, I've bought (or, for the most recent items, have on my Amazon wishlist) every officially licenced Star Trek novel and comic. Every series.

...everything? Literally all of it??