Why is Neelix so obnoxious

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Spock_the_Vulcan, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Spock_the_Vulcan

    Spock_the_Vulcan Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Location:
    In a galaxy far, far away...
    Okay, so I recently got into "Voyager", having only watched a couple of episodes. However, I have learned that Neelix is generally regarded as the Jar jar Binks of Star Trek. However, I fail to see why. Any explanations?
     
  2. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Location:
    JirinPanthosa
    He's a comic relief character who usually isn't funny.
     
  3. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    He's not as bad as the EMH though.
     
  4. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Location:
    In many different universes, simultaneously.
    The EMH is one of my favorite characters of all the Star Trek series. The Doctor can't help being programmed by somebody with a huge ego.

    As for Neelix, a lot of the dislike stems from his extremely creepy relationship with Kes, who is only 2 years old at the beginning of the series (Ocampans only live to be 9 years old).
     
    Silkie likes this.
  5. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    One of the good things about Neelix is that throughout the series, he gradually becomes a better and more likeable character, in the end becoming a genuinely valuable (and loved) member of the crew, even though he still has his 'silly' moments. And he has his deeper sides, though it's kind of a pity they only surface in a few episodes.
     
    FreddyE likes this.
  6. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Location:
    Paris (FRANCE)
    True but being able to intervene directly in his program, he could have made adjustments, in particular on this point. Besides, he already changed his "original" nature made after his "father", Dr Lewis Zimmerman, to create his own personality, in being more cheerful, talkative and curious, right?!

    At least, Neelix was by nature, warm and welcoming, and above all, he had good heart, quality that nobody can take away from this character. Everybody loved Neelix (even Tuvok, even if the Vulcan hid his feeling well) and he repayed them well in return (the scene when everyone was present to salute him a last time was very revealing). But yes, he was maybe a little too cheerful, I freely admit this point but he was precisely a perfect balance with Tuvok and the Doctor, I think.
    Only his relationship with Kes was a total time loss, which alas, continued too long and sent the wrong message than Neelix was attracted to young people (cf to Naomie Wildman and Borg children, later). :crazy:
     
  7. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Location:
    Outer Graceland
    His oily voice.

    Often kind of butts in, trying to be helpful.

    Too cheery.

    In the OP it asks "why?" Do you mean in what ways is he obnoxious to many people, or why did they write such an obnoxious character? The latter I can't answer.
     
  8. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    I love the Neelix/Tuvok dynamic.
     
  9. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    His programme is adaptive and can learn but all he learns is how to become Mary Sue and it gets more and more grating as the seasons go on.
     
  10. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Location:
    In many different universes, simultaneously.
    Mary Sue characters are ones who are beloved by everyone, and can do everything better than everyone else. They're also attractive, cheerful, and self-confident.

    Not everyone loved Neelix, there's a lot he couldn't do better than anyone else, including cooking (Seven would have been a fantastic gourmet chef, and would probably have figured out how to make even leola root palatable). And I dunno about you, but I don't find Neelix attractive in any way.

    He's got cheerful and self-confident going for him, though. But he doesn't pick up social cues very well. So I really can't agree that he's a Mary Sue.

    As for the Doctor... I'm reasonably sure he didn't have carte blanche to reprogram himself. There are some things he wouldn't be able to do because it would violate the "do no harm" ethical routine.
     
    Refuge likes this.
  11. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Location:
    Planet Spaceball
    Neelix has a personality that initially got on a lot of adult viewers' nerves when the show first aired, and in later seasons when he sheds his obnoxious traits and is more of a jolly moral advisor, his overly happy nature may come off as annoying to some. Remember, this show is from the '90s, when Barney the Dinosaur was still fairly recent in the public's memories.

    Personally, I like Neelix--after the first couple of seasons. In Seasons 1 and 2 I don't like him, I find him obnoxious, selfish, immature, and disturbingly possessive of Kes. He gets better after she dumps him, and after she leaves the ship his personality changes almost completely. My theory for this is that Ocampans form telepathic bonds with their mates, that have unpredictable effects on non-Ocampans. (This would explain not only why Neelix changed personalities for the better after she was gone, but why Tom was so wildly out of character when married to her in "Before and After.")
     
    FreddyE, Catarina, May 20 and 2 others like this.
  12. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Prax
    Neelix is a sad clown. He's traumatized on the inside and seeks to make everything better around him. We see his inner darkness from time to time.

    Neelix being annoying is a sort of writing thing. Most episodes, he's fine, but there are a few, especially in season 7, where if I were there, I would break his face, or at least cuss at him.
     
    Tracy Trek and WarpTenLizard like this.
  13. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

    I love Neelix and the EMH, they're two of my favorite characters.
     
    WarpTenLizard and Betelnut like this.
  14. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    It's a defence mechanism. He's actually horribly depressed.
     
    Catarina, Betelnut and Tracy Trek like this.
  15. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    He was badly conceived and horribly written, at least initially. It was a great testament to Ethan Phillips that he managed to turn the character into something better than was written.

    I don't know whether it was different elsewhere, but I had the pleasure of being 'minder' for Ethan on a signing appearance and he said to me (with a smile) 'Brits don't like Neelix !'.
     
    WarpTenLizard likes this.
  16. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Location:
    Tenacity
    Neelix isn't as bad as a lot of characters on Voyager, or Trek in general.
    That goes for any character you could name on the show.

    Personally Neelix is one of my favorite people on Voyager. While there were exception, he normally had a positive attitude, was friendly, he cared for others, he actively wanted to grow as a person and learn new things.

    Kes (at two years) was the equivalent of a young twenty-something adult, not a child. Neelix obviously didn't want their relationship to end and his reaction to it's conclusion was not atypical. But he handled it better than some.

    My least loved would be Paris, his pathetic want-a-be "bad boy" thing got old and tired after two or three episodes.
     
    ToddCam, Tribble Threat and Betelnut like this.
  17. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    When you think about it both Neelix and Kes had caring personalities. Janeway could at times be caring but her job didn't allow for it to distract her from tough decisions. Chakotay was spiritual... Yet Voyager needed the kindness these two Delta quadrant characters (Kes and Neelix) brought.
     
    Six of Twelve, Betelnut and Amaris like this.
  18. cosmic mouse

    cosmic mouse Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2017
    Location:
    Tube 32
    He's only about 1/100th as annoying as Jar Jar Binks... ;)

    ... he is annoying at times, but that kind of goes with the territory of being highly extroverted, gregarious and overtly emotional. Neelix grew on me a little as the series progressed though, which is more than I can say for one or two of the other characters.
     
  19. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2017
    Location:
    Herbert
    Not nearly as bad as Jar Jar but then, what is? My biggest problem with Neelix other than his generally annoying personality was Janeway's elevating him to essential status on Voyager, even going so far as making him a member of the senior staff. As I recall at one point, she says to him something to the effect that she couldn't run the ship without him, which I always found to be almost complete bullshit. Sure, he had some value in the first couple of seasons as guide but that was about it. His tendency to stretch the truth, if not outright lie about his own abilities was also a major flaw. Voyager would have been just fine without him.

    The EMH got quite annoying at times as well due to the ongoing "freedom" demands.
     
  20. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

    This. Neelix made himself morale officer in spirit until it was actually given to him as a job assignment. His sole desire was to make people feel better by making them feel comfortable and at home.
     
    Six of Twelve likes this.