Why is Neelix so obnoxious

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Spock_the_Vulcan, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Tracy Trek

    Tracy Trek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Kes and Tom had ended up together, would it have also been seen as creepy? Despite being younger than Neelix (relatively speaking), Tom would have still been way older than Kes.

    Since her species lived 9 years, I think she was the equivalent of 20 something at age 2.


    I think he had guilt about not serving in the war. And also about not being with his family when they died. Guilt coming at him from both sides.:(
     
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  2. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

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    I just watched Investigations (S2E20), where Paris left the ship. There's this sweet scene where Neelix is saying goodbye to Tom, and as Paris opens his arms to explain something, Neelix leans in and hugs him, and I just love that scene so much.
     
  3. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Was her relative age ever stated in-show?

    In my view, Neelix was much older than Kes, and the age difference wasn't the only issue. As Kes herself pointed out, Neelix was possessive, jealous, clingy, and when she tried making other friends and enjoying activities with them, he insisted on "involving himself" - in short, no matter what she did or where she went, he wanted to be there - particularly if she was with a single, unattached male who wasn't him.

    If (and I don't know if this is really the case) you are suggesting that the reason I disapprove of Neelix and Kes is because Neelix is alien and Tom is human, I would appreciate if you would un-suggest it.
     
  4. Betelnut

    Betelnut Ensign Red Shirt

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    Neelix is one of my favorite characters on Voyager. Yes, he had the flaw of jealousy (which he admits to and hates himself). But he is also loving, enthusiastic, cheerful, interested in others, and has useful information for the crew. He wanted to help, desperately. Maybe people didn't like that aspect of his personality...

    I think it is ridiculous that people think he and Kes weren't a good pair because of his looks. Oh brother. He loved Kes unconditionally and she was definitely not one to judge on looks but on character. His jealousy was a terrible character flaw and a good reason to break up. Plus she needed to explore other relationships.

    I liked Neelix's role as Delta quadrant expert and moral officer. And I agree with others who note the underlying sadness in him. He had survivor's guilt and felt great pain over the loss of his family. That lent great depth to his character.
     
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  5. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

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    Don't forget about the time Hogan died as a direct result of Neelix's incompetence.
     
  6. Tracy Trek

    Tracy Trek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think he had this neediness to him that made him jealous. And I agree it made for an unhealthy relationship.

    That's not what I meant and I'm sorry if it sounded that way.
     
  7. Refuge

    Refuge Rear Admiral Commodore

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    When Kes did meet up with another of her kind, Tanis in Cold Fire, he was way creepier than either Neelix or Tom!
     
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  8. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree that Tom as a "bad boy" did not work AT ALL (maybe it could have, but not on '90s "Star Trek" where all main characters must ultimately do the right thing every time). But, Tom dropped that by Season 3 or 4, and became more like Voyager's version of Fry from "Futurama."
     
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  9. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

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    Sad but true. I like what Neelix eventually became on the show, but what they tried to do originally with him did not work at all. Did you know they were actually trying to make him Voyager's version of Quark? And thought NEELIX was going to be the "breakout character?" That's what I've read anyway...
     
  10. Brennyren

    Brennyren Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I remember reading that when the show debuted!

    As for me, I think a big part of the problem was that the writers were mostly crap at humor. I kept feeling like I was supposed to laugh at Neelix, like the writers really really wanted me to laugh at Neelix -- but he wasn't actually funny! They tried too hard, and it showed.

    In later seasons, when they toned down the whole "comic-relief" aspect of him, he got a lot more bearable.
     
  11. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe Neelix wasn't very funny, but I would never say the writers did a bad job at humor. Voyager has some of the most hilarious comedy episodes in Star Trek.
     
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  12. Brennyren

    Brennyren Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Bride of Chaotica!" was admittedly pretty awesome, but what are the others?
     
  13. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

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    Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy, Author, Author, Message in a Bottle, Relativity, Body & Soul endless dry humor from Tuvok, sarcasm from Seven, Barcley or Q, maybe.

    I dunno
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  14. Brennyren

    Brennyren Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There's more than I remembered! And pleasant memories, too, so thanks. :techman: Let me restate, then: The writers of the early season episodes, when Neelix was most annoying, were not very good at writing humor, especially the kind of broad humor they were trying for with Neelix.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I'll see if I can hunt up "Message in a Bottle" for a rewatch. :hugegrin: Don't know how I could have forgotten that one!
     
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  15. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually more like Commander Riker which the reason I've anointed Paris the name "Paris Riker". The writers really really REALLY wanted to be TNG and the stories sadly showed this.
     
  16. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

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    It's kind of ironic. Most of those comedy episodes mentioned revolve around the Doctor, and it was Ethan Phillips who auditioned for that role, while Robert Picardo had auditioned for the role of Neelix. Picardo has said that he was at first, disappointed in getting stuck being the holographic doctor.
     
  17. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    Not the highest bar to get over, imho.
     
  18. Six of Twelve

    Six of Twelve Captain Captain

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    Neelix became far less annoying as time went by, especially after Kes left. He was cheerful, helpful, caring, loyal, and always seeking to learn. He could be annoying at times, but always meant well. And he always stuck by Tuvok, even when Tuvok was unkind to him.

    Personally, I found Harry Kim far more annoying, as he could be sarcastic, condescending, and patronizing with people
     
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  19. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

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    Who's "Tuvok"?

    Do you mean "Mr. Vulcan"?

    Neelix deliberately refused to get Tuvok's name right and you think Tuvok was the one being unkind?
     
  20. Sakonna

    Sakonna Captain Captain

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    My favorite is when they're first dumped on the planet in "Basics", and the entire crew is split into 4 teams, and those teams are led by Janeway, Tuvok, Kim, and Neelix! For what possible reason would NEELIX be the one leading a quarter of the crew in this situation???

    This is the best interpretation of Neelix, and I always wished the show had done more (or, really, anything) with it. The writers never quite seemed to connect the relentless cheeriness with the tragic backstory, it felt more like they were just occasionally toggling between the two... time for a dramatic Neelix ep, so let's reference that genocide again and have him be sad and serious for a minute, then we can go back to happy Neelix next week.

    DS9's writers made a similar mistake with their character of Leeta -- just using her for broad wackiness, and missing that there was such a wonderful way to bring depth to her character by connecting her sunny worldview to her presumably rough past during the Occupation.