Okay, so I recently got into "Voyager", having only watched a couple of episodes. However, I have learned that Neelix is generally regarded as the Jar jar Binks of Star Trek. However, I fail to see why. Any explanations?
Why is Neelix so obnoxious
- Thread starter Spock_the_Vulcan
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He's a comic relief character who usually isn't funny.
He's not as bad as the EMH though.
The EMH is one of my favorite characters of all the Star Trek series. The Doctor can't help being programmed by somebody with a huge ego.
As for Neelix, a lot of the dislike stems from his extremely creepy relationship with Kes, who is only 2 years old at the beginning of the series (Ocampans only live to be 9 years old).
One of the good things about Neelix is that throughout the series, he gradually becomes a better and more likeable character, in the end becoming a genuinely valuable (and loved) member of the crew, even though he still has his 'silly' moments. And he has his deeper sides, though it's kind of a pity they only surface in a few episodes.
True but being able to intervene directly in his program, he could have made adjustments, in particular on this point. Besides, he already changed his "original" nature made after his "father", Dr Lewis Zimmerman, to create his own personality, in being more cheerful, talkative and curious, right?!
At least, Neelix was by nature, warm and welcoming, and above all, he had good heart, quality that nobody can take away from this character. Everybody loved Neelix (even Tuvok, even if the Vulcan hid his feeling well) and he repayed them well in return (the scene when everyone was present to salute him a last time was very revealing). But yes, he was maybe a little too cheerful, I freely admit this point but he was precisely a perfect balance with Tuvok and the Doctor, I think.
Only his relationship with Kes was a total time loss, which alas, continued too long and sent the wrong message than Neelix was attracted to young people (cf to Naomie Wildman and Borg children, later).
His programme is adaptive and can learn but all he learns is how to become Mary Sue and it gets more and more grating as the seasons go on.
Mary Sue characters are ones who are beloved by everyone, and can do everything better than everyone else. They're also attractive, cheerful, and self-confident.
Not everyone loved Neelix, there's a lot he couldn't do better than anyone else, including cooking (Seven would have been a fantastic gourmet chef, and would probably have figured out how to make even leola root palatable). And I dunno about you, but I don't find Neelix attractive in any way.
He's got cheerful and self-confident going for him, though. But he doesn't pick up social cues very well. So I really can't agree that he's a Mary Sue.
As for the Doctor... I'm reasonably sure he didn't have carte blanche to reprogram himself. There are some things he wouldn't be able to do because it would violate the "do no harm" ethical routine.
Not everyone loved Neelix, there's a lot he couldn't do better than anyone else, including cooking (Seven would have been a fantastic gourmet chef, and would probably have figured out how to make even leola root palatable). And I dunno about you, but I don't find Neelix attractive in any way.
He's got cheerful and self-confident going for him, though. But he doesn't pick up social cues very well. So I really can't agree that he's a Mary Sue.
As for the Doctor... I'm reasonably sure he didn't have carte blanche to reprogram himself. There are some things he wouldn't be able to do because it would violate the "do no harm" ethical routine.
Neelix has a personality that initially got on a lot of adult viewers' nerves when the show first aired, and in later seasons when he sheds his obnoxious traits and is more of a jolly moral advisor, his overly happy nature may come off as annoying to some. Remember, this show is from the '90s, when Barney the Dinosaur was still fairly recent in the public's memories.
Personally, I like Neelix--after the first couple of seasons. In Seasons 1 and 2 I don't like him, I find him obnoxious, selfish, immature, and disturbingly possessive of Kes. He gets better after she dumps him, and after she leaves the ship his personality changes almost completely. My theory for this is that Ocampans form telepathic bonds with their mates, that have unpredictable effects on non-Ocampans. (This would explain not only why Neelix changed personalities for the better after she was gone, but why Tom was so wildly out of character when married to her in "Before and After.")
Personally, I like Neelix--after the first couple of seasons. In Seasons 1 and 2 I don't like him, I find him obnoxious, selfish, immature, and disturbingly possessive of Kes. He gets better after she dumps him, and after she leaves the ship his personality changes almost completely. My theory for this is that Ocampans form telepathic bonds with their mates, that have unpredictable effects on non-Ocampans. (This would explain not only why Neelix changed personalities for the better after she was gone, but why Tom was so wildly out of character when married to her in "Before and After.")
Neelix is a sad clown. He's traumatized on the inside and seeks to make everything better around him. We see his inner darkness from time to time.
Neelix being annoying is a sort of writing thing. Most episodes, he's fine, but there are a few, especially in season 7, where if I were there, I would break his face, or at least cuss at him.
Neelix being annoying is a sort of writing thing. Most episodes, he's fine, but there are a few, especially in season 7, where if I were there, I would break his face, or at least cuss at him.
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I love Neelix and the EMH, they're two of my favorite characters.
It's a defence mechanism. He's actually horribly depressed.
He was badly conceived and horribly written, at least initially. It was a great testament to Ethan Phillips that he managed to turn the character into something better than was written.
I don't know whether it was different elsewhere, but I had the pleasure of being 'minder' for Ethan on a signing appearance and he said to me (with a smile) 'Brits don't like Neelix !'.
I don't know whether it was different elsewhere, but I had the pleasure of being 'minder' for Ethan on a signing appearance and he said to me (with a smile) 'Brits don't like Neelix !'.
Neelix isn't as bad as a lot of characters on Voyager, or Trek in general.
That goes for any character you could name on the show.
Personally Neelix is one of my favorite people on Voyager. While there were exception, he normally had a positive attitude, was friendly, he cared for others, he actively wanted to grow as a person and learn new things.
Kes (at two years) was the equivalent of a young twenty-something adult, not a child. Neelix obviously didn't want their relationship to end and his reaction to it's conclusion was not atypical. But he handled it better than some.
My least loved would be Paris, his pathetic want-a-be "bad boy" thing got old and tired after two or three episodes.
When you think about it both Neelix and Kes had caring personalities. Janeway could at times be caring but her job didn't allow for it to distract her from tough decisions. Chakotay was spiritual... Yet Voyager needed the kindness these two Delta quadrant characters (Kes and Neelix) brought.
He's only about 1/100th as annoying as Jar Jar Binks... 
... he is annoying at times, but that kind of goes with the territory of being highly extroverted, gregarious and overtly emotional. Neelix grew on me a little as the series progressed though, which is more than I can say for one or two of the other characters.
... he is annoying at times, but that kind of goes with the territory of being highly extroverted, gregarious and overtly emotional. Neelix grew on me a little as the series progressed though, which is more than I can say for one or two of the other characters.
Not nearly as bad as Jar Jar but then, what is? My biggest problem with Neelix other than his generally annoying personality was Janeway's elevating him to essential status on Voyager, even going so far as making him a member of the senior staff. As I recall at one point, she says to him something to the effect that she couldn't run the ship without him, which I always found to be almost complete bullshit. Sure, he had some value in the first couple of seasons as guide but that was about it. His tendency to stretch the truth, if not outright lie about his own abilities was also a major flaw. Voyager would have been just fine without him.
The EMH got quite annoying at times as well due to the ongoing "freedom" demands.
The EMH got quite annoying at times as well due to the ongoing "freedom" demands.
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This. Neelix made himself morale officer in spirit until it was actually given to him as a job assignment. His sole desire was to make people feel better by making them feel comfortable and at home.
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