Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by B. L., Apr 18, 2019.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder whether Harry's corpse was posthumously promoted...

    Janeway: Ensign Kim, you'll make lieutenant over your dead body!
     
  2. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Except the dead baby was on the Voyager didn't blow up. The live baby and the live Harry were both from the Voyager that did. I actually got confused about that too. After the other Voyager blew up and took the enemy with it, there was one Voyager, heavily damaged. It had a live Harry and a live Naomi onboard, both received from the destroyed Voyager, plus a deceased newborn in its morgue and an asphyxiated Harry floating a few kilometers away. So I was wondering what was done with the two bodies...

    Well, if she had said "over my dead body," she was right. In "Before and After", Janeway was dead and Harry had ○○ on his collar.
     
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  3. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Harry must feel like Othello: "Still, she must die or else she'll prevent ensigns from being promoted!!!"...:D
     
  4. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    That's the funniest thing about him... he's crazy-devoted to her. Look at what happened in "Resolutions". Tuvok explained that NO, we are not going to risk Voyager by contacting the organ-stealing Vidiians, not even to rescue the Captain. Harry promptly had a bit of a meltdown on the bridge.

    I think if someone pointed a phaser at Captain Janeway, Harry would throw himself in front of the beam, and he wouldn't even think of disintegrating until he has absorbed the entire blast.
     
  5. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    He's like Weyoun, worshipping the changeling female, even though she keeps kicking him in the teeth.:rommie:
     
  6. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    And periodically dying and returning, too. Maybe Harry would have been more interesting if they'd made him a Vorta spy.
     
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  7. bryce

    bryce Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    I think that it would have been an interesting dynamic to have seen Kes and Seven interact.

    Much more than boring ol' Kim.

    But if the Kim character shows up in Picard or Lower Decks, they should do something crazy like make him an Admiral.

    LD would actually be the show that could have gotten away with that, but it's kinda set too soon after Voyager's return. But making him like a Captain would be funny. Even if it's just if a small ship.

    It would kinda be funny in Picard if Seven had to contact "Admiral Kim" in Picard. Though if they have her contact Admiral anyone, it would be Janeway. But she might be retired by then (but somehow I doubt that.)
     
  8. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    They could make it work, I think.

    2378: Voyager returns home.
    2378: Harry is promoted to ○○ lieutenant and taken on as ops officer/third in command on a deep space mission.
    2379: Harry is promoted to ○○● LCDR and made first officer when his predecessor retires.
    2380: While deep in space, the captain is killed. Because of the essential importance of the mission, Harry is grant field promotion to ○○○○ captain.
    2381: Harry's ship encounters the Cerritos on it's way home.

    ____________________

    Btw, consider the following, from "Nightingale":

    HARRY: "I've been on Voyager for almost seven years and I'm still an Ensign."
    JANEWAY: "If this is your way of bucking for a promotion..."
    KIM: "No, no, I understand there's a command structure and that our circumstances are unique."


    That's how those writers justify their actions. "There's a command structure". A command structure that did NOTHING to stop Janeway from making a wanted criminal her first officer, an academy dropout her chief engineer, a jailbird her helmsman, and a piece of software her chief medical officer. It did NOTHING to stop her from promoting her security chief, demoting the Equinox's surviving crew, and giving Tom both of the above. Given the sheer flexibility of the "command structure", it would have been the easiest thing in the world for Janeway to give her ops officer (who had exceeded all expectations, saved the ship a time or two, and helped build the Astrometrics lab and Delta Flyer) the rank boost that his seniority demanded.

    As justifications go, that's like trying to block an anti-tank missile with a lace parasol.
     
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  9. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Janeway herself should have been demoted more than once for all the stupid anti-Starfleet decisions she made throughout the series. The most glaring being her alliance with the Borg... I'll give her that, when she violates regulations she doesn't do it... piecemeal...
     
  10. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Wouldn't THAT be funny... Harry, an ensign who did lieutenant level work for 7 years, gets bumped up to LCDR after Voyager gets home. Janeway gets bumped down to lieutenant, and has to call him "sir".
     
  11. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Sounds like: "And the meek shall inherit the Earth." :D
     
  12. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Or "The first shall be last, and the last first."
     
  13. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In fairness, when Voyager first started off, Kim was fresh out of the Academy... his first posting, and he was simply speaking 'too green' with no field experience to speak of.
    All of the Maqui on Voyager had plenty of field experience.

    Chakotay graduated from the Academy and probably had a rank of Commander (or just below it) already when he joined the Maquis and before becoming Voyager's Number One - though I suppose Janeway COULD have made Tuvok her First Officer and delegated Chakotay to Tactical with a rank of Lt.Cmmd (and the fact she hadn't done that... we know the real world reason for it... but in-universe reason would probably be that he was already a Commander or close to becoming one with a lot of field experience - though, Tuvok was FAR older).

    There was also an episode long debate over whether Torres would make a good chief engineer in the third episode (the first 2 being a pilot)... and when the chips came down, it turned out to be Torres. Kim may have had a general grasp of multiple ship operations, but he was no chief engineer material.

    I wouldn't have minded to see Torres being given a field promotion of Ensign and made chief engineer (Janeway could have promoted her later to Lieutenant in the show - it wouldn't be a first time an Ensign was a chief engineer - TNG set a precedent).
    As for Carey... well, he WAS the obvious choice, but ultimately Torres turned out to be better when thinking on her feet (I think).

    Tom Paris... well, he technically finished the Academy from what we know (even though his background is VERY similar to Nick Locarno's) and could have held a previous rank of Ensign before joining the Maquis and getting caught.

    Torres also had a great deal of field experience as an engineer and working under limited resources... and Janeway was opposed to granting her that promotion. Plus, 2 crewmembers filed a complaint over her promotion... for all we know, one of those could have been Kim.

    I guess that was the only 'special circumstance' which Janeway could have operated on when replacing officers and people who died in transit to the Delta Quadrant.
    They established a 'new command structure' (unique to Voyager) at the start, and ran with that.

    I do agree Kim should have been promoted earlier... or at the very least around the same time Tom got demoted to Ensign (which was incidentally around the same time Kim started getting more assertive - aka end of Season 4 or mid season 5).
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Don't get me wrong, most of what Janeway did was fine. In her position, I probably would have made Carey chief and B'Elanna his assistant, but B'Elanna was more skilled, and I can understand the politics of wanting to have Maquis in key positions.

    In that post, I was precisely targeting one thing and one thing only: the ridiculous notion that Voyager's "command structure" did not allow Janeway to stick a hollow pip on Harry Kim's collar.
     
  15. danellis

    danellis Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, but it was the replica they promoted, not the "original."

    dJE
     
  16. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    The "original" was never in a position to be promoted. He died with less than two years of Starfleet service. The "replica" has the exact same two years of service, and continue to amass them. Ergo, he deserved a promotion.
     
  17. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    I think Seven got it right in "Waking Moments"


    Remember what she said: "Ensign Kim, it is your fault that we're stuck here!!!" And then she hit him...
     
  18. Batai

    Batai Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    In his life as he knew it, Picard had to go to the infirmary for a tetanus shot after he stabbed himself pinning on his new pips when he was promoted to full lieutenant.
     
  19. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Except I think the pips don't have pins. They just stick on, like velcro.
     
  20. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Or maybe they're magnetic.

    Or maybe it's verteron quantum anti positron double dumbass on you field... they're very popular this year.:D