Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by B. L., Apr 18, 2019.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a fad. It will never last.
     
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  2. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Probably causes cancer, too. All those verterons and anti-positrons doing who knows what to your cells... it's a scary thought to say the least.
     
  3. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    This reminds me... I recently encountered an old west story in which a cavalry Major is busted down to Lieutenant due to what was considered a majorly poor decision/bad judgment in a combat situation, and then this former Major (who keeps insisting that he made the right decision) kind of wanders aimlessly from post to post never doing a good job anymore, and also drinking too much. So he ends up in a troop commanded by a Captain who used to be under his command. And then this former Major finally redeems himself by putting himself in harm's way and taking a bullet and dying in another soldier's place.

    I wish we had seen more stuff like this in Trek.

    Kor
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    See, that's the kind of story I like.
     
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  5. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    And also, the former Major keeps getting treated like a pariah by soldiers who blame him for the deaths of their friends who were under the former Major's command at said combat engagement. It reminds me of the "outcast" treatment Tom Paris got at the beginning of VOY. But of course, Tom became everyone's likeable buddy before too long.

    Kor
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I like character growth like that. To me those are the types of stories that allow for the most growth. Being the outsider in a lot of ways that really appeals to me too. I think that Star Trek could do well to draw from a lot of Western style stories with such development.

    Tom Paris is a character I like but it would have done well to keep some measure of tension with him instead of being back in Starfleet, and able to be promoted and everyone's best bud!
     
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    It reminds me of the Starship Troopers movie. Private Rico is trained under Drill Sgt. Zim, then sent into combat. And he winds up getting a whole bunch of battlefield promotions (i.e. taking the place of someone who died) and he's a captain (army version, equivalent to a senior Navy lieutenant). While Zim, to get back into battle, took a voluntary reduction to private, so Rico now way outranks him.
     
  8. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    This reminds me of the clichés in old westerns. You have the fallen girl, for example, she's in love with the hero and is a rival to the good girl, but since the fallen girl is either a prostitute or a reformed one. The only way she can regain her status as a "good girl" is by jumping in front of gunfire and take the bullet that was destined either to the hero or to the good girl... we see that in many old westerns.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    I ended a love triangle like that once, only the "fallen" third wheel was male, a troubled orphan, and got crushed to death by a giant. It was all very tragic, but I couldn't think of anything else to do with him. There was no other character I could stick him with.
     
  10. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    It wasn't the jolly green giant... was it?:D
     
  11. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    At first I thought you were describing something that happened in reality in your personal life. :eek:

    Kor
     
  12. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    So was I. I only realized it now.:lol:
     
  13. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Tom Paris earned everyone's respect fairly gradually. But when he retook the ship from the Kazon with his plan and the Talaxians' help, this cemented him being everyone's pal.
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Think Rico ended up a lieutenant by the end, not a captain. But, yeah, that was my biggest issue with the film was it lacked any sort of leadership development for Rico. I get that the director was satirizing the concept but it was still stupid.
     
  15. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Nope, it was a Harry Potter fanfiction. Had a torch-carrying ex-boyfriend, and I didn't want him hanging over the head of my two "happily ever after" lovebirds. So, he met the kind of death that had he been Klingon, warriors would have sung songs about him for a century or more.
     
  16. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Honestly, Tom suffered from an issue similar to Harry's... instead of starting at point A (troubled but very capable misfit) and moving on a path to point B (valued crew member), he started kind of between the two and seemed to just meander there. Unlike Harry, he had a few waypoints ("Investigations", "Thirty Days"), but he didn't seem to change all that much.

    Of course, Harry changed less and should have changed more. Consider:

    The Harry we should have had (start)
    Ensign, fresh out of academy
    Not ready to run a department
    Assigned to ensign-level work, not seen at staff meetings.
    Young, inexperienced, and gullible. The kind of officer Quark would eat for lunch.

    The Harry we should have had (end)
    Lieutenant (○○), seven years in Starfleet
    Runs his department smoothly and efficiently.
    Seen at staff meetings and obviously belongs there.
    Older and wiser, experienced and tempered by his years in the Delta Quadrant.
    Quark wouldn't even bother with him.

    The Harry we got for all 7 seasons
    Ensign, never promoted or even considered for it.
    Presumably runs his department smoothly from the start.
    Seen at senior staff meetings, even at his most junior.
    Vacillates between capable and clueless.
    Quark would probably still eat him for lunch.

    No growth, just an amalgam of the officer he started out as and the officer he should have become.
     
  17. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To what extent is Ops really a department rather than just a station (with alternate officers in different shifts)?
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Were it a mere station, there would be no reason for Harry to attend Janeway's "senior officer" briefings. Between his rank and seniority, he's about as far from "senior" as you can get.
     
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  19. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Ops IS a station, a department is supposed to be something bigger and more abstract like stellar cartography for example.
     
  20. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Maybe. But the fact remains, Janeway periodically assembles her senior staff, including:
    Chakotay, first officer
    Tuvok, chief of security
    EMH, acting chief medical officer
    B'Elanna Torres, chief engineer

    And whatever Harry's supposed title, he's there too.