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Where should Star Trek go next if going forward?

I must confess that I wish Vulcans had been played consistently, over the years. I like them very stoic and deadpan. To me ... that's what Vulcans are like. But they've been played as LOTR elfs for so long, I just have to throw my hands up, anymore and say "F-it!" What can you do? You know? What can you do ... But keeping track of every grunt and groan, making sure they match up, throughout the franchise does seem constipated. Even to the point of the digitally updated & revamped "Space Seed" dropping in Chekov, just to ensure that it connects with TWoK. I found that to be particularly risible.
Haven't seen LOTR, but I'll trust you on that one. Also, I'm not saying that every little teeny tiny detail has to be ensured that they match up, because heaven knows that would be costly in both time and money, but keep appropriate consistency so that most things, especially the important things, all line up properly. I'll use the holo-communications as an example. This was seen first in Deep Space Nine, aboard the USS Defiant, just being installed as new technology that apparently still has some issues to it. Then Discovery comes around and starts using the same technology, long before it seems to actually exist, with the only plausible excuse (which is more or less an excuse for lazy writing/not paying attention to/caring about the canon) being that it was secretive experimental technology that only the Discovery got, and somehow it was lost along with all the information on it, until the events of Deep Space Nine. Things like that are important; it's when you get tiny matters like if some sort of paneling changed after several seasons, and then in a later season they do a flashback to before the change, and it has the current paneling. That's a minor issue that doesn't have any sort of importance or impact, other than being the equivalence of an Easter egg.



It would be great to have that wholesomeness remain in STAR TREK. Where the show demonstrated through its fiction that it's actually cool just to be a decent person. Now, main characters are expected to fly their "I'm an Asshole" flags high, because it's more dramatic and nobody comes off as a pussy, like TNG's Barclay did. I get it. I'm OK with it. But it's like growing up, a little. You look back on your childhood, maybe, and you see that the world's different now. Or, maybe you just see it different, because you are, having grown up, some. Either way, every generation looks back and says, "... we were (more) innocent, in those days." Why losing that has to be considered so important, I don't know. But yeah, it would be nice to see TV not cater to the lowest denominator for ratings' sake. At the same time, this is how it is as a single tear rolls down my cheek. TOS' innocent charm doesn't translate, anymore. It would be nice if it did ... if it could. But TOS is still around and available, if people really need to see that.
The wholesomeness and the fact that the most intense language (which also was fitting for the situations) were "hell" and "damn", are great aspects. The whole deal with the "I'm an asshole" flags, as you call it, is an attempt by Hollywood to make it seem modern and "edgy", while throwing in F-bombs that aren't necessary at all for whatever reason they thought it was a good idea, which I partially think is one of the reasons they're running it on an exclusive service, since I don't think they could get away with that actually airing on a network every week.
I think every generation looks back and says that, because it's often true, at least in the sense that things such as cursing and the like still existed, but they weren't as public and as common. A lot of people have lost a sense of how to be socially appropriate. I always use the example when people are firing off way too much, if they'd talk like that to the cashier at their grocery store during checkout.
Although a bit ironic at least for who I am, I don't generally mind most cursing too much, as long as people don't take it too far, and understand that socially in public places a lot of things such as F-bombs aren't socially appropriate and generally don't create a friendly environment. TOS also wasn't completely innocent, especially considering Kirk and women, Orions, etc. It's still available, but it's also still a bit cheesy and only has 3 seasons. Keeping it much cleaner allows for a larger audience, and can still be applied to television today, which is my goal.

Well, yes, not every movie, not every series episode has to be Fast & Furious, but having a ponderous story only to reveal that the secret, at the end, the great mystery, turns out to be ... what? ... an old Man behind the curtain. Or just to preach to the choir, here, "wouldn't it be great if we were all a little nicer to eachother?" That sucks. You know? That really sucks. If they're going to pull that shite, better make it a fun ride getting there, so it doesn't matter as much.
Yeah... There's always episodes like that which end up being the worst, simply because they've got practically no action at all, and completely dull plotlines where little happens, and even the moral at the end of the story is worthy of the garbage can. You need a good balance to try and help prevent that. Kind of like if the story doesn't have tons of action, it better have (thing here) to compensate for that, or if it doesn't have as much good story/too dull, a bit of extra action can be added in for some compensation.


Every generation claims to have the answer. All of that Tree-hugging, Political Correctness has only caused people to act out those feelings differently. Repression doesn't lead to anything good. And you can't change people. I've had girlfriends believing their love would change me, for example. HA!!! When they eventually left, they did so much wiser. Trying to change someone only changes you. Not them. That's how Life works. But the joy of TNG was that we saw that people have changed and wanted to. They let go of the bullshit, because they found out that there's a whole Galactic Culture "out there" that Humanity has an important place in. A position from which timeless and entertaining stories could be told. That really speaks to me, I like that, a lot. When I spoke of "an optimistic future" earlier, in this thread, I wasn't actually referring to most of that, though. I just meant that STAR TREK should always look for ways to uplift the viewer's spirits in a fictional setting where Life isn't bad. Life can be good, for everybody, no matter who you are or what your problems might be ... regardless of their severity. Not that STAR TREK is going to provide useful solutions to any of that to a Real World audience, but just to present situations where you can escape from your troubles for an hour, or two and feel good about that.
Tad confused at what you're trying to say there/how it relates to Trek (the first few sentences), but I kinda get it. Change is a delicate matter, and people have to be willing to. You can't forcibly change someone, but you can try and help them along by supporting them and guiding them.
Aside from that, agreed. Even though at times things got ridiculous, the concept was that by centuries later, people managed to improve/learn better ways to handle things.


Discovery
still has to discover itself. That's what its problem is. If it becomes STAR TREK as we've never seen it before AND it entertains in a way that keeps you coming back for more, then vive Discovery! Until that day comes, then it's going to continue to be awkward to watch. It's so aware of its own self importance, because it's modern-day STAR TREK, that it's kind of lost its way. Edgar Alan Poe once said that if you want to come up with a really cool and interesting idea in a genre, you have to pretend like it doesn't exist. You have to pretend that you're the one inventing it. That's what Discovery needed to do, but it's got JJ Abrams' spin and "the franchise's legacy" on its ass.
It does, but I doubt it will. When the primary focus is to milk fans for money, not give them quality content, it will surely fail. That's where I say they've abandoned the original formula that made Trek what it is, in favor of trying to appeal to a new "modern" audience today, which they're not even getting that part right. The JJ spin is definitely a big issue, although I do think they should think about the actual legacy of the franchise, and how to make it even better.
 
Boy Scout Oath ....

On my honor
I will do my best
to do my duty
to God
and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people
at all times;
To keep myself
physically strong,
mentally awake,
and morally straight.


Unlikely to be word for word, but I like to see/hear something like this as the Starfleet oath. Maybe a flash back to a small crowd of resently graduated cadets about to be commissioned at the academy reciting a somewhat similar oath
Ah that's a pretty good idea :P I think some sort of little motto/oath would be an interesting concept, especially for the next Captain to use at a point, even if it isn't used beyond that.

Star Wars can get away with a lot because it's separated by great distance and time. It doesn't matter if we have Twitter, because they didn't have Twitter a billion years ago on the other side of the universe. Thus, Star Wars is sort of insulated from new technologies in a way that's similar to fantasy movies.

Star TREK, on the other hand, doesn't have that luxury, because they're supposed to be our descendants.

I didn't mean to suggest that the stuff never happened in the "soft reboot" scenario. I meant to imply that what happened in the documentary happened in real life, but in a slightly different way or with different technology that people wouldn't know about in the late 20th Century. That way, you could have the same actors reprise their roles, but they could be slightly darker, edgier versions of themselves, or have characteristics that weren't shown in the holo-documentary. Maybe the Doctor from Voyager actually has a mullet, or Janeway has a cybernetic arm made by Seven of Nine after she lost an arm fighting the Hirogen. So not throwing everything entirely out. Just adjusting to bring it in line with the times, add some interesting twists, and making especially clear to people that "Threshold" NEVER, EVER HAPPENED! ;)
While that's true that they're supposed to be our descendants, without really shaking up a LOT of things, there's no effective way to insert things into the past's perception of the future, other than developing the future of that future further. You could easily explain it as a timeline divergence from our own (saying that it separated in the 90s sometime for example) as a reason to why they don't have things like Twitter, the Internet, or certain technologies we have. It could also be explained that we just haven't seen those things yet in any of the stories, too. I just think taking what's already solid canon, especially if you had to have actors reprise roles (some of which such as Brent Spiner have said they would not, or they just may look too drastically different from aging, or some that may not be around anymore), is very awkward and basically kills the reality that fans have believed in for such a long time, killing that feeling that you actually know and like (or dislike... *cough* Wesley...) those characters. There shouldn't even be a reason or requirement to modernize them and make them more edgy, especially since they worked out well as they currently are, and that style really isn't working out for modern stuff that well anyways. TNG, DS9, Voyager, Frasier, Family Matters, etc, all had their own special formulas that worked out for them, and that likely wouldn't work if changed to be modern and edgy today, all while still being loved to this day for those reasons. Simply put, I think explaining it as a timeline divergence (if you even HAVE to explain it, which I don't believe you have to, since this is a fictional reality anyways) and that 25+ years after the events of DS9/Voyager's era, maybe some of those technologies have been discovered or finally utilized.

You mean like the way Geordi was captured and turned into a Romulan agent, with no memory of it even happening, in the episode "The Mind's Eye"? Kinda hard to argue that it couldn't happen when it already has.
That's actually like one of the only episodes I've missed, so I didn't quite have that for reference, although in fairness I'd have to say the Romulans can cloak. The Borg on the other hand have absolutely massive cubes without cloaking capabilities.

Fair enough, although it would set up a really cool "Power of Frendship" arc, where every major power in the Alpha Quadrant would be forced to come together to defend themselves. Imagine a fleet of anti-Borg Federation-Romulan hybrid ships that can weave Tholan energy webs!
I wouldn't call it "Power of Friendship" necessarily, but I do absolutely LOVE that idea! It'd be seriously legit to see that as a movie or franchise finale, basically defeating the Borg once and for all, or at least driving them out of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant for good.

The problem with the Borg isn't their complexity. If anything, they became less complex (or at least less mysterious) as time when on. The problem is that they're techno-zombies that are basically just a metaphor for corporate America in the 1990s, and that's never been updated. If depictions of the Borg had even kept parity with the zombie genre, they'd still be half way interesting. Then again, I don't think we've even seen a new Borg on TV in 15 years, so...
I'll just say, I want to incorporate the Borg again to the pitch/script I'm working on myself. I think what really happened, is that Voyager kind of unraveled some of the mystery behind them because of how much of a focus they were. I think they're still a good species though, and that the mass damage Janeway caused is a good catalyst for some change to help develop them again, and start giving them their own personality in a way.
 
@TheGameAce, I don't need it to be edgy (although I could do with more scientific accuracy). I'm just saying that a soft reboot that partially preserves continuity can give you wiggle room to change things in general for the better. I'm not espousing a particular direction necessarily.

The problem I have with making it a retrofuturism thing (like Alien Isolation) is that it limits how relevant your stories can be to the present. The longer the show runs, the less relatable your future becomes. That's one of the reasons we do remakes in the first place.
That's actually like one of the only episodes I've missed, so I didn't quite have that for reference, although in fairness I'd have to say the Romulans can cloak. The Borg on the other hand have absolutely massive cubes without cloaking capabilities.
And why don't they have cloaking abilities? They had already assimilated entire Romulan outposts by the end of TNG's first season. Fast forward to Star Trek: First Contact, and they still can't cloak?!? This is what I'm talking about: lots of arbitrary limitations on the Borg that don't make sense. At least have some excuse for it, like there's some latent computer virus slowing them down or something.
I'll just say, I want to incorporate the Borg again to the pitch/script I'm working on myself. I think what really happened, is that Voyager kind of unraveled some of the mystery behind them because of how much of a focus they were. I think they're still a good species though, and that the mass damage Janeway caused is a good catalyst for some change to help develop them again, and start giving them their own personality in a way.
Voyager didn't massively change the Borg lore, actually. If anything, the TNG series and movies had already boxed them in to a large extent. For instance, the Borg Queen was introduced in First Contact.

And I don't exactly consider them a poor enemy. I just think they haven't kept up with the times (grey goo, cyberwarfare, simulation theory, et cetera).

With regard to them having their own personalities, I think you misunderstand what the Borg are. They're a metaphor for depersonalization and conformity people experience when becoming part of a monoculture, specifically corporate America, where people are forced to work in a cube-shaped building, in an open workspace the provides no privacy or comfort, and they have no agency in, or importance to, their respective company. It's basically the novel Anthem without all the Ayn Rand "selfishness is a virtue" crap. Give them back their personalities and you undermine what made the Borg terrifying: the loss of self.
 
@TheGameAce, I don't need it to be edgy (although I could do with more scientific accuracy). I'm just saying that a soft reboot that partially preserves continuity can give you wiggle room to change things in general for the better. I'm not espousing a particular direction necessarily.

The problem I have with making it a retrofuturism thing (like Alien Isolation) is that it limits how relevant your stories can be to the present. The longer the show runs, the less relatable your future becomes. That's one of the reasons we do remakes in the first place.
Yes, some extra scientific accuracy could do good, but the question is how accurate can you get, especially when working with technologies that don't actually exist? I think one of the reason they even come up with different terms for actual scientific stuff from time to time, is that the real stuff sounds too dull.
Definitely not saying just make it outright retrofuturism, but you have to be careful with how you put things in with technology, as well as trying to change established things. At least in my opinion, you can add what you need to by advancing the timeline the right amount, kind of like how they did it between TOS and TNG.

And why don't they have cloaking abilities? They had already assimilated entire Romulan outposts by the end of TNG's first season. Fast forward to Star Trek: First Contact, and they still can't cloak?!? This is what I'm talking about: lots of arbitrary limitations on the Borg that don't make sense. At least have some excuse for it, like there's some latent computer virus slowing them down or something.
Hey, don't look at me. I didn't come up with that one. I've thought about it too, considering they've assimilated many cultures with cloaking (Romulans and Klingons included) yet they still don't. Best explanation I can think of is that maybe their ships are just too big, or some other technology of theirs conflicts with it.

Voyager didn't massively change the Borg lore, actually. If anything, the TNG series and movies had already boxed them in to a large extent. For instance, the Borg Queen was introduced in First Contact.

And I don't exactly consider them a poor enemy. I just think they haven't kept up with the times (grey goo, cyberwarfare, simulation theory, et cetera).
I don't think they really changed it, but I would say they heavily expanded it and added to it, especially around Seven-of-Nine's introduction. Forgot the Queen was first introduced in first contact, too. Need to see that one still. Not fully sure what you mean by the grey goo idea, although I think a lot of their other aspects are still quite fitting.

With regard to them having their own personalities, I think you misunderstand what the Borg are. They're a metaphor for depersonalization and conformity people experience when becoming part of a monoculture, specifically corporate America, where people are forced to work in a cube-shaped building, in an open workspace the provides no privacy or comfort, and they have no agency in, or importance to, their respective company. It's basically the novel Anthem without all the Ayn Rand "selfishness is a virtue" crap. Give them back their personalities and you undermine what made the Borg terrifying: the loss of self.
Personally, I don't go deep into things such as metaphors. With the Borg, I take them as they are: A powerful, menacing threat that heavily revolves around technology. I can see the comparison, true, but I'm not sure necessarily how many other people actually do think about such things, and it almost feels a bit political when thinking of it in terms like that.
However, I do think you're right that giving them back their personalities does undermine what the Borg are. I'm meaning more or less developing what makes the Borg unique, their special "personality", really defining them well.
 
If there's no social media in the 23rd/24th centuries, I'd consider that a sign of progress.
I wouldn't . While before my time, I do have some understanding of how isolated people could be prior to social media. You had access to the people in your immediate community, and it often would end there.

I acknowledge the well known problems with social media, but feel that the positives vastly out weight those negatives. We're better off with it, than without it.

And no we've haven't seen people on social media on the show, they socialize face to face for the most part. I would in the future like to see some mention that such media exists in the trek-verse.
 
Social media has been around for about 15 years. It's a bit presumptuous to assume that it would still be going strong 300-400 years in the future. We might as well ask why Trek doesn't have carrier pigeons or pony express.
 
I'd like a Titan series set 10 to 15 years after Nemesis with Frakes returning as Riker.
 
Social media has been around for about 15 years. It's a bit presumptuous to assume that it would still be going strong 300-400 years in the future. We might as well ask why Trek doesn't have carrier pigeons or pony express.
In a real sense, social media has been with us ever since the printed word, but the term and the devices used hasn't. Once when people used to write weekly or daily letters to individuals or groups about various events in their lives, they now send brief messages over the internet in real-time. In an age of faster-than-light subspace communications, I imagine that hasn't really changed, but the term "social media" might have just fallen into disuse. Instead of Facebook and Twitter, people just send stuff "over the net," "over subspace," or into specific databases.
 
Haha, why not? I'd love to see the Titan story told.
Honestly, Jonathan Frakes is pretty dang old at this point... Doesn't look like he used to. I think most people would prefer to see 25+ years later, advancing the main storyline in a TNG style with another series starting a few years in similar to DS9 and Voyager.
At least that's what I'd assume people would be most interested in right now.
 
I wouldn't . While before my time, I do have some understanding of how isolated people could be prior to social media. You had access to the people in your immediate community, and it often would end there.

I acknowledge the well known problems with social media, but feel that the positives vastly out weight those negatives. We're better off with it, than without it.

And no we've haven't seen people on social media on the show, they socialize face to face for the most part. I would in the future like to see some mention that such media exists in the trek-verse.
I would actually see a Star Trek episode, or any sci-fi show (I'm not picky) tackle the social media issue. On the one hand, it is easier to find people and keep up to date with multiple people at once. On the other hand, humanity is struggling with the ability to interact with face to face and make social connections.

It's a mixed bag and good scifi fodder.
 
Honestly, Jonathan Frakes is pretty dang old at this point... Doesn't look like he used to. I think most people would prefer to see 25+ years later, advancing the main storyline in a TNG style with another series starting a few years in similar to DS9 and Voyager.
At least that's what I'd assume people would be most interested in right now.

This is true but everyone gets old, it doesn't mean that a Titan series wouldn't be good. It's not like Frakes would have to do all the physical stuff he did as Riker in the TNG, as he is Captain he should leave that to his crew :lol:.

If not this then I agree with you in continuing the TNG timeline, no alternate universe or prequels and definitely no reboots!
 
Haha, why not? I'd love to see the Titan story told.
Well ...


Had they tried a TITAN spinoff after TNG went off the air, instead of GENERATIONS, yeah, it might’ve been an interesting prospect. Perhaps, even a worthy series in the franchise. But there is a time limit on everything in life. Even our Solar System’s days are numbered, perhaps the whole universe, as well. It’s not fun, but that’s just how it is. A Jonathan Frakes’ headed TITAN is decades past its expiration date. Now, if TITAN were a new STAR TREK series, starring a young actor as Captain Riker and Jonathan Frakes became associated with the project some way, then I’ll welcome it – especially if it were a miniseries, or a TV movie, kind of a thing. Just having CBS throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

But I would never push for it, or feel any sense of anticipation for TITAN, even under those circumstances. Watching TNG, Frakes/Riker belong and fit in … they’re an important part of what made the series so successful. That’s the fun of watching Riker, for me. A little guest spot here, or there, on other series is very pleasant. Like coming across a relative you haven’t heard from, in years, out on the street. It doesn’t mean you want to see them every day, from now on, or anything. Or even that you’d mind it if you had. But it was just really great seeing them. It made your day … that’s all. Beyond that I’m really looking for something new and different, to be honest. Something refreshing …
 
Well ...


Had they tried a TITAN spinoff after TNG went off the air, instead of GENERATIONS, yeah, it might’ve been an interesting prospect. Perhaps, even a worthy series in the franchise. But there is a time limit on everything in life. Even our Solar System’s days are numbered, perhaps the whole universe, as well. It’s not fun, but that’s just how it is. A Jonathan Frakes’ headed TITAN is decades past its expiration date. Now, if TITAN were a new STAR TREK series, starring a young actor as Captain Riker and Jonathan Frakes became associated with the project some way, then I’ll welcome it – especially if it were a miniseries, or a TV movie, kind of a thing. Just having CBS throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

But I would never push for it, or feel any sense of anticipation for TITAN, even under those circumstances. Watching TNG, Frakes/Riker belong and fit in … they’re an important part of what made the series so successful. That’s the fun of watching Riker, for me. A little guest spot here, or there, on other series is very pleasant. Like coming across a relative you haven’t heard from, in years, out on the street. It doesn’t mean you want to see them every day, from now on, or anything. Or even that you’d mind it if you had. But it was just really great seeing them. It made your day … that’s all. Beyond that I’m really looking for something new and different, to be honest. Something refreshing …

I agree it is late in the day for a Titan series and I get your reasons for not wanting it. I also don't believe for one second it would ever be considered but even now I think it could still work. Even if it is a miniseries to begin with, with Captain Riker on one last mission before taking promotion, then a full series continuing with Titans crew.

I just hope that we will get a continuation of the TNG timeline at some point.
 
Well ...


Had they tried a TITAN spinoff after TNG went off the air, instead of GENERATIONS, yeah, it might’ve been an interesting prospect. Perhaps, even a worthy series in the franchise. But there is a time limit on everything in life. Even our Solar System’s days are numbered, perhaps the whole universe, as well. It’s not fun, but that’s just how it is. A Jonathan Frakes’ headed TITAN is decades past its expiration date. Now, if TITAN were a new STAR TREK series, starring a young actor as Captain Riker and Jonathan Frakes became associated with the project some way, then I’ll welcome it – especially if it were a miniseries, or a TV movie, kind of a thing. Just having CBS throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

But I would never push for it, or feel any sense of anticipation for TITAN, even under those circumstances. Watching TNG, Frakes/Riker belong and fit in … they’re an important part of what made the series so successful. That’s the fun of watching Riker, for me. A little guest spot here, or there, on other series is very pleasant. Like coming across a relative you haven’t heard from, in years, out on the street. It doesn’t mean you want to see them every day, from now on, or anything. Or even that you’d mind it if you had. But it was just really great seeing them. It made your day … that’s all. Beyond that I’m really looking for something new and different, to be honest. Something refreshing …
I would rather have a post-NEM series be completely separated from the TNG/DS9/VOY cast as well as any books. I briefly debated on an "Excalibur" inspire series but I think the writers would run in to the same issues as even DISCO is-that fans have preconceived notions about that era that could not be overcome.
 
I just hope that we will get a continuation of the TNG timeline at some point.
I was actually so frustrated after binging every series at the lack of any new content in such a long time, that a while before Discovery was even announced, I started working on a pilot script as a concept, just for the fun of it, that does continue the timeline. Wasn't until more recently though that I got serious about it, between Discovery and realizing that I'm more suited for managing that than IT work... So who knows, maybe there's a chance :P
After all, I doubt they'll do something on their own like that, much less to a high standard of quality. Even if that doesn't go through, I'd still be happy if someone else managed to push one through, just as long as it's not gonna be another Discovery, being an exclusive where they try to milk money from fans.
 
Several opponents from previous shows return and, through cascading crises, overwhelm the Federation.
 
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