Where should Star Trek go next if going forward?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by SKTVillain, May 10, 2017.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No thank you.
     
  2. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the crew of the Orville would upvote this comment. ;)
    Why not just do an animated series. It's not like we're living in the days were cartoons are still consider children's fare, and we've had an animated series in the past. Personally, I'd go with an anime style on this one.
     
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  3. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    TAS isn't overly well known as a series as it is, from what I'm aware. There's just something about trying an animated series amidst a history of live action ones, that feels really off. Also not generally a big fan of most of the modern animation styles, and I think the style more specific to anime just wouldn't fit Trek.
     
  4. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually, I think a lot of people know about it since it showed up on Netflix. Wouldn't surprise me if younger audiences are more familiar with it than people 25 years older. Besides, a lot of people at this point have grown up with shows like Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Star Wars: Rebels, so some kind of animated series for an establishes Sci-Fi property wouldn't be that unusual to them.
    There's actually quite a lot of space opera anime out there, and it's common for anime to dive deeply into philosophy and the implications of technology. I think anime is a better fit than you realize. That said, 3D animations might be a viable approach as well.

    The advantage of animation is two-fold. First, you don't have to worry about you aging cast, of which most if not all of them are still alive, and in case someone either dies or quits, it's way easier to find a sound-alike for an animated series than deal with a departure in a live action series. (Unless it's Mako, in which case you're screwed.) Second, you can make an hour of anime for a tenth of what they're spending on Discovery right now.

    To be fair, I don't think a Titan animated series is a slam dunk for CBS, but I do think that it's theoretically viable, and much more so than a live action version at this point. Thinking about it with my investor hat on rather than my fan hat, I probably wouldn't greenlight it. However, if I were CBS, I might greenlight some kind of animated Star Trek series given the right pitch and circumstances.
     
  5. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Good point, although as one of those that could be considered part of that younger audience (depending on what you consider that range to be, of course), at least from my dealings I know most don't really know much about Trek to begin with, and the few that do are generally aware of the movies, such as the latest ones in the alternate timeline, and Wrath of Khan. Also not familiar with how well the Star Wars animated series have done, although I have seen some of them before. Not impressive, but still better than a lot of Episodes 1 - 3....

    Yet again, was not aware of that. I'm not exceedingly familiar with anime at all, although I've had tons of friends pressuring me to watch some. If it does indeed go into things like that, then very possibly. 3D animations could be viable, but if I had to choose, I'd probably go with more of an anime style.
    Points well taken though, especially on the matter of aging cast.
    Titan as an animated series is obviously theoretically viable, as is almost anything. As long as you can envision it, draw it out, and put a script to it, it's technically viable. Animated would also be the only way at this point, unless they found some miracle cream to reverse Frake's aging.
    I think if they wanted to do an animated series, they'd need two things to happen: #1, Discovery would need to improve enough to keep it active for at least a few more years, which would then lead to #2, another main series that goes on the air, and is successful, which is what I'm banking on currently with my own work.
    If you have those things, you have a solid chance of reinvigorating the fanbase, and attracting new attention, but only if done right.
     
  6. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't know. I can see a situation where, several years after Discovery is (hypothetically) cancelled, someone with a lot of clout in Hollywood (but not Seth MacFarlane, because he's probably burned that bridge with The Orville) could come in with a good pitch and some financing lined up, and CBS could say: "Well, the franchise is on live support anyways, so what do we have to loose?"

    I don't really see there being a second series during Discovery's run, because I don't see how they can make a sister show that's in the same time period that would allow any kind of crossover potential, and I don't see them doing two unrelated shows, especially not in different time periods. It's more likely that they'll sunset Discovery as some point and try a new series. (Actually, I think the anthology series idea would have worked better for Discovery, to be honest, but I suppose they wanted to be able to reuse assets from season to season.)
     
  7. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    From what I've read, they only even did Discovery because the latest movies were successful enough. As long as Discovery goes through at least 3 or 4 seasons, I see that as just enough time to wiggle in and make a good pitch, and get a new series set up.
    I can see a second series during Discovery's run, solely because Discovery isn't airing on television. If they're hooked on a solid plotline for the pilot episode, and can be convinced that if done right it can be a big hit, I think they'd do it.
    Either way, I'm still gonna try to put that pitch forward myself if I can. Someone's gotta do it, and the worst they can do is say no, right? After all, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." - Wayne Gretzky.
     
  8. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If TITAN became an animated series, Jonathan Frakes would voice it and I'd be glad for him, that he got to make something old new again, by playing Riker after all of these years. I'm a huge fan of his. However, I would not think much of TITAN's chances and honestly, I wouldn't be all that interested in it, outside of a quick curiousity peak. I'm honestly not into cartoons, that much. For being all of half an hour, TAS episodes can be a chore to get through because they're really boring and not all that imaginative. Cats, birds and geckos are scaled up to Human size, with some simplistic outfit drawn on and it's just not that interesting. Again, the Art is colourful and the style is very pleasing, but it doesn't drive my imagination.

    TITAN would have the benefit of computers and a staff of writers helping it out, but I'm just not feeling it. Riker is Picard's right hand Man on TNG and he's great to watch. Beyond that, it starts to take on the airs of an entitlement series, where TITAN's just on the air because Frakes is still around. There's no hype, there. No more than there's be for "The Outrageous Okona" getting an animated series, or Cyrano Jones. If STAR TREK were to return to animation, I would expect it to do well, were it not be based on a pre-existing STAR TREK series. Come up with something all new and call it STAR TREK: São Gabriel, or some shite and get the old Trekkers the hell off the show's arse. Let it be fresh and different ... a brand new breed, for youngsters and oldsters, alike ... without canon looking over its shoulder.
     
  9. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A new animated Trek series doesn't have to be bad any more than a new animated series of any kind has to be bad. If you don't like animation, that's fine, but other people would welcome an animated Star Trek, so long as it's good.

    (That said, I don't know much about Titan, and I have nothing invested personally in it. I was merely commenting on what is possible and defending the means, animation, rather than a particular series concept.)
    I don't think most fans actually care about the details. Getting the details wrong is more symptomatic of a general not caring about the property. If you give people a show that has the "feel" of Star Trek, and is made with love and attention to detail within its own continuity (i.e. you don't contradict your own show episode-to-episode), then I think that even the diehard fans will eventually come around. The Orville got a second season not because it got all the details of Star Trek right. (If it had, they'd have been sued into the Stone Age.) People liked the show because they could tell the people making the show cared about it. Make a show with love and care and people will forgive its flaws, even if it's a spinoff.
     
  10. ralfy

    ralfy Commander Red Shirt

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    I mention that because any move forward appears to be repeating the same things from the past, i.e., settled conflicts with alien beings whether through a "monster of the week" story or a longer arc.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I know it does, and on the surface level it sounds very appealing. But, this hints at a dystopian worldview that struggles to be optimistic. And given DISCO's current reception as "too dark" I'm not convinced that it would work.

    Personally, a post Dominion War style reconstruction era, with new frontiers being expanded would be more interesting, and still be able to showcase the optimism despite the struggles of the war. And, in all honesty, you could work in that potential collapse and invasion, really combine the struggles of the Roman Empire and the United States post Civil War Reconstruction but with more optimism.
     
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  12. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    You hit the nail on the head there, which has been exactly my focus, too; developing things showing a while past the Dominion War, and how they're still working through issues caused by it is a great new focus. Heck, I want to see the Breen used again. Don't know about anyone else, but they're a really interesting species to me.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, you could have the Breen, and even some unknown species from inside Romulan Territory. Create that frontier feel from TOS, while allowing for some consequences and different facets of Federation life to be explored.
     
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  14. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I was honestly planning on trying to write in some sort of fresh exploration for the Gamma Quadrant, and maybe some more development for the Beta Quadrant. Writing the Breen as a new primary villain, rather than overusing Romulans or making up a new species. Feel like they're a mysterious enough species, and it was even written that they can be tougher than the Klingons. Gives a lot of room for coming up with some cool stuff.
    Not sure yet about what to do with the Romulans though...
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's the thing-you don't have to do much with the Romulans, as they might clam up after the war and tend to their own, if you don't want the Hobus star destroying Romulus. If you do use that, then Romulus is either splintered or withdrawn due to the loss. Either way, you can move them out of the picture.

    Also, according to this map the Breen are an Alpha Quadrant power, bordering with Cardassia. So, you could just explore that way, with Cardassian worlds being in dispute after the war.
     
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  16. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I haven't really shared much of my writing aside from now, but with the Romulans, at least for a good while I just want to keep them in the shadows a bit more, and bring them around once in a while, maybe when it's needed as a break. Definitely not thinking of having Romulus destroyed, since that feels like it just causes a lot of issues, and kills a chance at making them a bit more of a focus for a part of the story at a later point in time. Thinking the best bet for the Romulans is to make it similar to like you said, clammed up since the Dominion War, but possibly with slightly more optimistic relations with the Federation, maybe even starting into their own reformation at a later point in time.

    First time actually seeing a map like that, which is actually rather helpful for me as more of a visual thinker. Still trying to work out more details, but I want a focus on the Breen being primary antagonists who for the years since the Dominion War loss, have been bitter/angry, keeping to themselves and quietly plotting to try and take back lost territory. On the side of that, Gamma Quadrant exploration and a unique arc is a plausible idea, and I'm intending for there to be a bit more development with the Cardassians, showing the rebuilding they've had to do, maybe with the aid of the federation.
    Also figured on that note, would be nice to have Elim Garak as the new leader of Cardassia? He's always been a favorite character of mine, and given all he accomplished during DS9, it seems rather fitting.

    Heck, at this rate, I should just stop being nervous and make a thread about this... May be a good way to get more ideas.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sounds like you have thought about this for a while. Glad that the map helps and hope to hear more.

    That said, I think having the Cardassians as allies, while trying to face down the Breen would be very interesting. I don't know if Garak would fit in as the leader, but I wouldn't mind seeing it. Certainly would be interesting.
     
  18. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Indeed, I have thought about this for a while. It was about a year ago that I started work on this, figuring it may be amusing just to see if I could come up with something worthwhile. After classes this year though showed me I wasn't really cut out for Information Technology, I discovered that my talents and desires were perfectly suited for this stuff, and it became my new passion.
    Since then, I've been slowly writing a pilot script in hopes of being able to pitch it this summer, carefully developing characters, ideas, etc. I haven't even really talked over any ideas with others until now, either, so this is actually extremely beneficial to the point I may actually make an entire thread for it.

    In any case, indeed, the map is very beneficial, as are all the ideas. Back more to topic of it, that's been my general thinking. Garak may not be the ultimately best leader, but if you think about it, he's got a lot of good qualifications already, and as a favorite character of a lot of people, I think it'd do well, especially if he could make a guest appearance a few times.
     
  19. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've returned to The Orville, again and again and I truly can't stand it. I've given up on it, completely. The very last show I saw was when there was some planet of people with round "likes" buttons on them, like some analogue for FaceBook, or something ... I don't know what it was, if it was the direction, the staging of it, the script ... all of the above? It was like the final straw with just how lame this series is. It thinks it's clever, but it's banal and not half as entertaining as it believes itself to be. I truly am shocked that it got a 2nd season.

    The makers of the current STAR TREK series have been openly playing with the idea of getting more shows on the air, overlapping shows, like different mini-series ideas and all that, which most on these boards are already aware of. The excitement that they have for the potential that's there gives me hope for this franchise. Mostly because they seem to feel that STAR TREK is that viable. If a cartoon series is going to be a part of that, I think that's great. I just can't get excited about reviving ideas that weren't fully explored, ever. Like, "Hey! What was Columbia's story in TMP? Let's make a show about that!" What the hell for? Why not take advantage of what wiggle room does exist in this franchise for fresh ideas and originality? When I come across something like TITAN, it makes me nervous, like the people making it are just talentless hacks ... that's the last thing STAR TREK needs.
     
  20. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I personally love the show, although I could have done without "Cupid's Dagger". That one was a disappointment. (The immediate next episode, "Firestorm", was excellent though.)
    Animation isn't the idea so much as the format. You really have to have an idea that fits the format. I suggested if for Titan simply because live action wasn't possible, not so much because it seemed like the premise was optimal for animation. Animation is good for ambitious stories that would be too expensive for live action. Because they're cheaper to make, you can be way more experimental. For instance, something like Batman: Gotham Knight would never be made as a live action because it's an anthology of six short films from six different directors done in radically different styles. (I though the Working Through Pain short was particularly good, BTW).
    I think fans have a bad habit of doing things that are derivative. Voyager suffered from this a bit, and I think that's why many people preferred DS9. DS9 very clearly wasn't derivative. Well, okay, it's all derivative to some extent. DS9 did have several characters from TNG, for example. However, there's a difference between taking the familiar and doing something new with it and just retreading the same ground over and over.

    That would be my one major complaint about Star Trek Continues: it did too many episodes that were derivative of other episodes/movies. Which is not to say that it wasn't good. It was the closest thing to real Star Trek that the fan film community has ever produced. It's just that with a really good script, something like "City on the Edge of Forever", it could have pushed it from really good to legendary.
     
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