Where should Star Trek go next if going forward?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by SKTVillain, May 10, 2017.

  1. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Haven't seen LOTR, but I'll trust you on that one. Also, I'm not saying that every little teeny tiny detail has to be ensured that they match up, because heaven knows that would be costly in both time and money, but keep appropriate consistency so that most things, especially the important things, all line up properly. I'll use the holo-communications as an example. This was seen first in Deep Space Nine, aboard the USS Defiant, just being installed as new technology that apparently still has some issues to it. Then Discovery comes around and starts using the same technology, long before it seems to actually exist, with the only plausible excuse (which is more or less an excuse for lazy writing/not paying attention to/caring about the canon) being that it was secretive experimental technology that only the Discovery got, and somehow it was lost along with all the information on it, until the events of Deep Space Nine. Things like that are important; it's when you get tiny matters like if some sort of paneling changed after several seasons, and then in a later season they do a flashback to before the change, and it has the current paneling. That's a minor issue that doesn't have any sort of importance or impact, other than being the equivalence of an Easter egg.



    The wholesomeness and the fact that the most intense language (which also was fitting for the situations) were "hell" and "damn", are great aspects. The whole deal with the "I'm an asshole" flags, as you call it, is an attempt by Hollywood to make it seem modern and "edgy", while throwing in F-bombs that aren't necessary at all for whatever reason they thought it was a good idea, which I partially think is one of the reasons they're running it on an exclusive service, since I don't think they could get away with that actually airing on a network every week.
    I think every generation looks back and says that, because it's often true, at least in the sense that things such as cursing and the like still existed, but they weren't as public and as common. A lot of people have lost a sense of how to be socially appropriate. I always use the example when people are firing off way too much, if they'd talk like that to the cashier at their grocery store during checkout.
    Although a bit ironic at least for who I am, I don't generally mind most cursing too much, as long as people don't take it too far, and understand that socially in public places a lot of things such as F-bombs aren't socially appropriate and generally don't create a friendly environment. TOS also wasn't completely innocent, especially considering Kirk and women, Orions, etc. It's still available, but it's also still a bit cheesy and only has 3 seasons. Keeping it much cleaner allows for a larger audience, and can still be applied to television today, which is my goal.

    Yeah... There's always episodes like that which end up being the worst, simply because they've got practically no action at all, and completely dull plotlines where little happens, and even the moral at the end of the story is worthy of the garbage can. You need a good balance to try and help prevent that. Kind of like if the story doesn't have tons of action, it better have (thing here) to compensate for that, or if it doesn't have as much good story/too dull, a bit of extra action can be added in for some compensation.


    Tad confused at what you're trying to say there/how it relates to Trek (the first few sentences), but I kinda get it. Change is a delicate matter, and people have to be willing to. You can't forcibly change someone, but you can try and help them along by supporting them and guiding them.
    Aside from that, agreed. Even though at times things got ridiculous, the concept was that by centuries later, people managed to improve/learn better ways to handle things.


    It does, but I doubt it will. When the primary focus is to milk fans for money, not give them quality content, it will surely fail. That's where I say they've abandoned the original formula that made Trek what it is, in favor of trying to appeal to a new "modern" audience today, which they're not even getting that part right. The JJ spin is definitely a big issue, although I do think they should think about the actual legacy of the franchise, and how to make it even better.
     
    2takesfrakes likes this.
  2. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Ah that's a pretty good idea :P I think some sort of little motto/oath would be an interesting concept, especially for the next Captain to use at a point, even if it isn't used beyond that.

    While that's true that they're supposed to be our descendants, without really shaking up a LOT of things, there's no effective way to insert things into the past's perception of the future, other than developing the future of that future further. You could easily explain it as a timeline divergence from our own (saying that it separated in the 90s sometime for example) as a reason to why they don't have things like Twitter, the Internet, or certain technologies we have. It could also be explained that we just haven't seen those things yet in any of the stories, too. I just think taking what's already solid canon, especially if you had to have actors reprise roles (some of which such as Brent Spiner have said they would not, or they just may look too drastically different from aging, or some that may not be around anymore), is very awkward and basically kills the reality that fans have believed in for such a long time, killing that feeling that you actually know and like (or dislike... *cough* Wesley...) those characters. There shouldn't even be a reason or requirement to modernize them and make them more edgy, especially since they worked out well as they currently are, and that style really isn't working out for modern stuff that well anyways. TNG, DS9, Voyager, Frasier, Family Matters, etc, all had their own special formulas that worked out for them, and that likely wouldn't work if changed to be modern and edgy today, all while still being loved to this day for those reasons. Simply put, I think explaining it as a timeline divergence (if you even HAVE to explain it, which I don't believe you have to, since this is a fictional reality anyways) and that 25+ years after the events of DS9/Voyager's era, maybe some of those technologies have been discovered or finally utilized.

    That's actually like one of the only episodes I've missed, so I didn't quite have that for reference, although in fairness I'd have to say the Romulans can cloak. The Borg on the other hand have absolutely massive cubes without cloaking capabilities.

    I wouldn't call it "Power of Friendship" necessarily, but I do absolutely LOVE that idea! It'd be seriously legit to see that as a movie or franchise finale, basically defeating the Borg once and for all, or at least driving them out of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant for good.

    I'll just say, I want to incorporate the Borg again to the pitch/script I'm working on myself. I think what really happened, is that Voyager kind of unraveled some of the mystery behind them because of how much of a focus they were. I think they're still a good species though, and that the mass damage Janeway caused is a good catalyst for some change to help develop them again, and start giving them their own personality in a way.
     
  3. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    @TheGameAce, I don't need it to be edgy (although I could do with more scientific accuracy). I'm just saying that a soft reboot that partially preserves continuity can give you wiggle room to change things in general for the better. I'm not espousing a particular direction necessarily.

    The problem I have with making it a retrofuturism thing (like Alien Isolation) is that it limits how relevant your stories can be to the present. The longer the show runs, the less relatable your future becomes. That's one of the reasons we do remakes in the first place.
    And why don't they have cloaking abilities? They had already assimilated entire Romulan outposts by the end of TNG's first season. Fast forward to Star Trek: First Contact, and they still can't cloak?!? This is what I'm talking about: lots of arbitrary limitations on the Borg that don't make sense. At least have some excuse for it, like there's some latent computer virus slowing them down or something.
    Voyager didn't massively change the Borg lore, actually. If anything, the TNG series and movies had already boxed them in to a large extent. For instance, the Borg Queen was introduced in First Contact.

    And I don't exactly consider them a poor enemy. I just think they haven't kept up with the times (grey goo, cyberwarfare, simulation theory, et cetera).

    With regard to them having their own personalities, I think you misunderstand what the Borg are. They're a metaphor for depersonalization and conformity people experience when becoming part of a monoculture, specifically corporate America, where people are forced to work in a cube-shaped building, in an open workspace the provides no privacy or comfort, and they have no agency in, or importance to, their respective company. It's basically the novel Anthem without all the Ayn Rand "selfishness is a virtue" crap. Give them back their personalities and you undermine what made the Borg terrifying: the loss of self.
     
  4. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Goo goo goo joob Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Location:
    Sitting in a nutmeg garden waiting for the sun
    If there's no social media in the 23rd/24th centuries, I'd consider that a sign of progress.
     
    2takesfrakes likes this.
  5. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Yes, some extra scientific accuracy could do good, but the question is how accurate can you get, especially when working with technologies that don't actually exist? I think one of the reason they even come up with different terms for actual scientific stuff from time to time, is that the real stuff sounds too dull.
    Definitely not saying just make it outright retrofuturism, but you have to be careful with how you put things in with technology, as well as trying to change established things. At least in my opinion, you can add what you need to by advancing the timeline the right amount, kind of like how they did it between TOS and TNG.

    Hey, don't look at me. I didn't come up with that one. I've thought about it too, considering they've assimilated many cultures with cloaking (Romulans and Klingons included) yet they still don't. Best explanation I can think of is that maybe their ships are just too big, or some other technology of theirs conflicts with it.

    I don't think they really changed it, but I would say they heavily expanded it and added to it, especially around Seven-of-Nine's introduction. Forgot the Queen was first introduced in first contact, too. Need to see that one still. Not fully sure what you mean by the grey goo idea, although I think a lot of their other aspects are still quite fitting.

    Personally, I don't go deep into things such as metaphors. With the Borg, I take them as they are: A powerful, menacing threat that heavily revolves around technology. I can see the comparison, true, but I'm not sure necessarily how many other people actually do think about such things, and it almost feels a bit political when thinking of it in terms like that.
    However, I do think you're right that giving them back their personalities does undermine what the Borg are. I'm meaning more or less developing what makes the Borg unique, their special "personality", really defining them well.
     
  6. Tenacity

    Tenacity Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    I wouldn't . While before my time, I do have some understanding of how isolated people could be prior to social media. You had access to the people in your immediate community, and it often would end there.

    I acknowledge the well known problems with social media, but feel that the positives vastly out weight those negatives. We're better off with it, than without it.

    And no we've haven't seen people on social media on the show, they socialize face to face for the most part. I would in the future like to see some mention that such media exists in the trek-verse.
     
    Matthew Raymond likes this.
  7. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Goo goo goo joob Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Location:
    Sitting in a nutmeg garden waiting for the sun
    Social media has been around for about 15 years. It's a bit presumptuous to assume that it would still be going strong 300-400 years in the future. We might as well ask why Trek doesn't have carrier pigeons or pony express.
     
  8. Viper78

    Viper78 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland
    I'd like a Titan series set 10 to 15 years after Nemesis with Frakes returning as Riker.
     
  9. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
    In a real sense, social media has been with us ever since the printed word, but the term and the devices used hasn't. Once when people used to write weekly or daily letters to individuals or groups about various events in their lives, they now send brief messages over the internet in real-time. In an age of faster-than-light subspace communications, I imagine that hasn't really changed, but the term "social media" might have just fallen into disuse. Instead of Facebook and Twitter, people just send stuff "over the net," "over subspace," or into specific databases.
     
  10. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Location:
    California, USA
    ... I hope you're joking!
     
  11. Viper78

    Viper78 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland
    Haha, why not? I'd love to see the Titan story told.
     
  12. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Honestly, Jonathan Frakes is pretty dang old at this point... Doesn't look like he used to. I think most people would prefer to see 25+ years later, advancing the main storyline in a TNG style with another series starting a few years in similar to DS9 and Voyager.
    At least that's what I'd assume people would be most interested in right now.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    I would actually see a Star Trek episode, or any sci-fi show (I'm not picky) tackle the social media issue. On the one hand, it is easier to find people and keep up to date with multiple people at once. On the other hand, humanity is struggling with the ability to interact with face to face and make social connections.

    It's a mixed bag and good scifi fodder.
     
  14. Viper78

    Viper78 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland
    This is true but everyone gets old, it doesn't mean that a Titan series wouldn't be good. It's not like Frakes would have to do all the physical stuff he did as Riker in the TNG, as he is Captain he should leave that to his crew :lol:.

    If not this then I agree with you in continuing the TNG timeline, no alternate universe or prequels and definitely no reboots!
     
  15. at Quark's

    at Quark's Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    It doesn't matter where they go next ... as long as they do it boldly, where no one has gone before.
     
  16. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Location:
    California, USA
    Well ...


    Had they tried a TITAN spinoff after TNG went off the air, instead of GENERATIONS, yeah, it might’ve been an interesting prospect. Perhaps, even a worthy series in the franchise. But there is a time limit on everything in life. Even our Solar System’s days are numbered, perhaps the whole universe, as well. It’s not fun, but that’s just how it is. A Jonathan Frakes’ headed TITAN is decades past its expiration date. Now, if TITAN were a new STAR TREK series, starring a young actor as Captain Riker and Jonathan Frakes became associated with the project some way, then I’ll welcome it – especially if it were a miniseries, or a TV movie, kind of a thing. Just having CBS throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

    But I would never push for it, or feel any sense of anticipation for TITAN, even under those circumstances. Watching TNG, Frakes/Riker belong and fit in … they’re an important part of what made the series so successful. That’s the fun of watching Riker, for me. A little guest spot here, or there, on other series is very pleasant. Like coming across a relative you haven’t heard from, in years, out on the street. It doesn’t mean you want to see them every day, from now on, or anything. Or even that you’d mind it if you had. But it was just really great seeing them. It made your day … that’s all. Beyond that I’m really looking for something new and different, to be honest. Something refreshing …
     
  17. Viper78

    Viper78 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland
    I agree it is late in the day for a Titan series and I get your reasons for not wanting it. I also don't believe for one second it would ever be considered but even now I think it could still work. Even if it is a miniseries to begin with, with Captain Riker on one last mission before taking promotion, then a full series continuing with Titans crew.

    I just hope that we will get a continuation of the TNG timeline at some point.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    I would rather have a post-NEM series be completely separated from the TNG/DS9/VOY cast as well as any books. I briefly debated on an "Excalibur" inspire series but I think the writers would run in to the same issues as even DISCO is-that fans have preconceived notions about that era that could not be overcome.
     
  19. TheGameAce

    TheGameAce Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    I was actually so frustrated after binging every series at the lack of any new content in such a long time, that a while before Discovery was even announced, I started working on a pilot script as a concept, just for the fun of it, that does continue the timeline. Wasn't until more recently though that I got serious about it, between Discovery and realizing that I'm more suited for managing that than IT work... So who knows, maybe there's a chance :P
    After all, I doubt they'll do something on their own like that, much less to a high standard of quality. Even if that doesn't go through, I'd still be happy if someone else managed to push one through, just as long as it's not gonna be another Discovery, being an exclusive where they try to milk money from fans.
     
  20. ralfy

    ralfy Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Several opponents from previous shows return and, through cascading crises, overwhelm the Federation.