When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Ragitsu, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Must have been a shitty situation for him anyway. People expecting him to have the answers to some existential questions they had just because he came from 'the other side', whereas the mystery was as unfathomable to him as to them and anything he would say could have damaged their beliefs to a severe extent.

    And that's without even considering the 'dying to get back home again' part yet.
     
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  2. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    JUSTICE FOR JOE CAREY!
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Joe suppoted Wesley's execution in TNG Justice.

    Fairs fair.
     
  4. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. I would think that a medical device could replicate the basic functions of a mother's womb.

    And Janeway backs that up at the end, when she reminds Harry: "There's a lot we don't know about death."

    QUOTE: JUSTICE FOR JOE CAREY!
    Yeah, really. Talk about a guy who deserved better... :rolleyes:
     
  5. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    [​IMG]

     
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  6. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I forgot: was it Janeway's or Neelix's decision to erect a kitchen in the mess hall?
     
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  7. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Neelix did it on his own... it was supposed to be the captain's private dining room. Janeway gave approval after he did it, though... this was after Kes volunteered her lung to him. (This was all in "PHAGE".)
     
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  8. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I remember her being... a bit taken aback when he moved all his pans and burners and food in.
     
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  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Imagine if he tried to introduce meat into their diet?

    A cargo bay full of space chickens scratching for feed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  10. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    good observation. I clearly remember some animal-derived produces such as “hair pasta”, so it wouldn’t be that far fetched if he did.
    Also keep in mind that many humans DO eat meat, it’s just that’s replicated one, no killing involved.
     
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or maybe every time a redshirt dies, he says "looks like meat's back on the menu..."

    On the original subject, here's a good quote I found on the Tor website:

    "My personal dislike for Voyager (and it’s not uniform dislike — some of Voyager I actually enjoy, but as a series it’s not one I go back to regularly) stems not from Janeway. Actually, exactly the opposite: I agree with you that Janeway — and Kate Mulgrew — was fantastic. I may not have agreed with every stance and decision the writers created for the character, but I thought she was, in fact, forceful and decisive. The fact that some members of the audience disagree with her decisions doesn’t change that.

    My problems with Voyager, and the reason it’s actually my least favourite (yes, I even prefer Enterprise) stem entirely from the approach that was taken, and from the quality of the writing of many of the stories. In my opinion, Voyager called for an even stronger arc-style storytelling model than DS9 managed, a clear sense of progression toward a final goal. Instead, we got an episodic starship show that was rarely different, in that regard, from TOS or TNG, and hence brought nothing really new to the table. Not nearly enough was made of the Starfleet/Maquis split, of the hardships of being damaged and far away from home, and there was rarely a clear sense of progress toward the goal of getting home.

    Add to that some dreadfully embarrassing clunkers, one of which qualifies for the Worst Star Trek Story EVER (“Threshold” aka “The Writers Turned Us Into Newts (but we got better!”) and I just gave up. Eventually, I took advantage of Netflix and went through and selectively watched things that looked like they’d actually be good and entertaining to watch and sure enough, they were, starting with the pilot, “Caretaker”, which I thought was really well crafted. Well enough that the subsequent failure to maintain that kind of quality is an even bigger disappointment than if it had merely been meh, or actually bad like “Encounter at Farpoint”!

    So, as a series, Voyager is always going to be my least favourite, but as a character, Janeway remains one of my most favourite."
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, all replicated food is made from human poop.

    A replicated steak is mostly cannibalism depending on how many species are pooping on the ship.
     
  13. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    i hate that discovery changed the replicators from energy-matter converters to matter resequencers.
     
  14. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Discovery is also set earlier, so perhaps the tech changed over time?
     
  15. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    That happened in season 3, in the 32nd century.
     
  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, gotcha. Perhaps in that future they were forced to revert to an earlier form of handling replicators as a means of conserving energy?
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Deep Space Nine said "protein re-sequencing" and Enterprise said that they make boots from poop.

    It's been a long road.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Break it down far enough, and poop is just a bunch of protons, neutrons, and electrons.
     
  19. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    VOYAGER essentially did the same thing, per "YEAR OF HELL" dialogue when Chakotay tries to give Janeway a birthday gift of a pocket watch, which she tells him to recycle it so it can be made into a hypispray or a pair of boots.
     
  20. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I hate that dialogue, actually. If replicators actually existed, recycling an object would undoubtedly be just as energy-intensive as creating one. Once an object existed, the most efficient use of it would be to leave it as it was. So, Janeway's proper response was to accept the watch, thank him, and admonish him to only make essential items in the future.

    And I still maintain that the watch should have turned up in the post-year of hell timeline, maybe just on Janeway's desk or something. Just a little continuity.