When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Ragitsu, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise To Ꝏ & BEYOND! Moderator

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    We'll have to keep the LD spoilers and discussion out of this thread please. I myself haven't had a chance to watch their "love letter" ;) to VOY yet. I'm sure it's tongue in cheek like most of LD.
     
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  2. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good comment.
    I think that's the reason for much of the criticizm against the character. Kirk, Picard and Sisko made mistakes and were sometimes criticized for it, even by their closest friends and officers. Janeway seldom did anything wrong and was seldom criticized.

    Personally I like the character but I can see some flaws here and there.
     
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  3. Dee1891

    Dee1891 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As far as I'm concerned, just about every Trek production I've seen has been guilty of this. And I certainly don't believe that VOY was more guilty of this than any other within the franchise.
     
  4. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    What I feel VOY was worst at was...
    1. Simple sloppiness. Instead of spending a few seconds of dialogue to resolve an inconsistency, they just ignored it.
    2. Reset button hammering. Events that should have had a profound effect on a character were forgotten by next week.

    These issues had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Kathryn Janeway, Kate Mulgrew, or women in general.
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup.

    It's not that Trek hasn't done it before. It's that it stands out more with sheer repetition.
     
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  6. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Other Treks have had the "the captain is right" trope too. I remember Lorerunner hammering "Dear Doctor" on the subject.
     
  7. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    When did an Ocampa lung become a person? :shrug::confused::hugegrin:
     
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  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You forgot to count Tuvix.
     
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  9. Beard of Sisko

    Beard of Sisko Lieutenant Newbie

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    Nah,
    Nah, it's just "MISAWGUHNEE", the usual go-to excuse for poorly written female characters.
     
  10. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    In the end, I was simply putting forth my two Federation credits; like any other human, I believe they deserve to live well, but...this fellow's time is better spent compartmentalizing the performance from the performer while discussing the former.
     
  11. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To me this sounds exactly like the kind of statement that's vague enough that it could both mean she really left because she decided to do so herself in all freedom, or a statement that could technically have been true but possibly not in reality (e.g. she was presented with a choice that wasn't really much of a choice at all).
     
  12. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    Janeway experienced more evolution in a day than most characters do over the course of their lives.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There is an argument that the Prophets killed Jennifer to upskill Sisko.

    He never would have taken the Bajor job if his wife was still alive.
     
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  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I could argue that the Effects of Caretaker left her nonplussed.

    Same woman before and after.

    Zero Evolution.
     
  15. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe the best way to settle the question is to show how Janeway's character was demonstrably different between Season 1 and Season 7.
     
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  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Season two she kicks Tom off the ship for hosting an illegal lottery.

    Season 7, she's betting on which hour Tom's kid is going to extrude.

    It's hard not to evolve over the course of 7 years, but we were talking about the dramatic shift in Kath's personality because of three days worth of chaos.
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought the comment about Janeway's evolution was a "Threshold" joke...
     
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  18. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    ...had I continued biting my tongue, chances are it would have been severed some time in the evening.
     
  19. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And that's another "Threshold" joke. :p
     
  20. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    Okay, THAT one was a Tuvix...I swear.