When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Ragitsu, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She Broke the Prime Directive in Every Episode, but we were not paying attention.

    Any time they wanted to buy something from an alien, they traded it for Federation Technology, which if you remember was Seska's original sin.

     
  2. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    Tragically, Janeway is forever defined by this act. Janeway is Tuvix in much the same way...

    ...Pandora is her box.
    ...Oppenheimer is his bomb.
    ...Lucas is his Gungan.
     
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  3. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    How wude.

    More seriously, though, Janeway's decision regarding Tuvix varies quite a bit. Some support it, and others acknowledge it an a decision with no right answer.

    Regarding her aiding the Borg, we can't say for sure whether her actions were right or wrong in the long run, because we don't know how far Species 8472 actually planned to go. If they truly intended to annihilate all life in the galaxy, and had the means to do so, then Janeway's actions don't seem so bad. Though I suppose technically, yes, it was a PD violation.
     
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  4. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    There are also those who consider her resolution to be unquestionably beyond the pale.
     
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    I know that. I spent quite awhile taking a hard look at that decision: why Janeway chose as she did, what might have motivated her to make the opposite choice, and how she would have felt afterward.

    A lot of the issue with Janeway is her inconsistency... no matter what your overall opinions on various Trek-related matters, she probably did something you don't like at some point.
     
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  6. Dee1891

    Dee1891 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I suspect that nearly all of the leads in the Trek shows have broken the Prime Directive, one way or the other. They rarely get called out for it, with the exception of Janeway.
     
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  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Did Sisko have a First contact episode?

    Other than Past Tense, but that was the temporal displacement Policy, which reads pretty much identical to the prime Directive.
     
  8. Summer Solstice

    Summer Solstice Captain Captain

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    "Battle Lines", "Sanctuary", "The Search", there are probably others...
     
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  9. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "CAPTIVE PURSUIT", "BATTLE LINES", "SANCTUARY", and "THE SEARCH" were also first contact scenarios.

    In "CAPTIVE PURSUIT", he dressed down O'Brien for interfering for Tosk, but Sisko also did his part because he didn't agree with his fate.

    "BATTLE LINES"... they crashed and left as soon as they could. While he did initially offer passage off the moon, it proved it couldn't be. So no violation.

    "SANCTUARY" was a first contact, but I don't see any violations there.

    "THE SEARCH"... he was under orders to find the Founders.
     
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  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sanctuary. Refugees. Sisko co-ordinated with the Bajoran Government. The weight was not on his shoulders.

    The Search. Post warp culture who had declared war on Bajor and the Federation by Destroying the USS Odyssey and culling the colony of New Bajor. Not a Prime Directive issue after the Federation and Bajor had ratified the dclaration. Although a state of War didn't exist until much later and it came out of Sisko's mouth.

    Battle Lines. They didn't listen to or care for the strangers from the Federation and Bajor. The team from DS9 did get sucked into a war without understanding the players or asking permission from Earth or Bajor, but was it a planetary war of billions or a brawl between a few dozen immortals?
     
  11. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also Move Along Home.
     
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  12. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Proof that you never let Quark handle a first contact mission.
     
  13. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    Unless the first contact is with a high-yield explosive.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    One for you, @Ragitsu.
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    As my uncle would say there is no problem so complicated that can't be solved with the proper application of high explosives.


    That pine tree never saw it coming.
     
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  16. Dee1891

    Dee1891 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As I can recall, most or probably ALL of the Trek captains have broken the Prime Directive in more ways than one. I never understood why Janeway was singled out for this act. Also, it was Seven-of-Nine who had allowed the Vaadwaur loose without Janeway's knowledge or permission.

    It's odd. A few months ago, a good number of fans were complaining that Janeway had failed as a character, because she was a Mary Sue. Now I see that many fans are back at criticizing her decisions and using them as examples of why she was a bad captain. It seemed as if some fans cannot make up their minds on why they dislike her. Which leads me to . . . again . . . speculate that Janeway's gender and position as starship captain has a lot to do with the dislike toward her.
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or people just have multiple reasons for disliking her...
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They have multiple reasons for liking her too.

    It sorta evens out.
     
  19. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Many of Janeway's flaws as a character stem from misguided efforts by the writers to make her seemingly infallible.
     
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  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well that's hardly unique.

    Seen the original MacGyver recently?