When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

[Farscape One]

It could be that it's legal to kill your clone if it's made without your consent. Riker and Pulaski were arguably raped, while Ibudan cloned himself.

Agreed. Riker and Pulaski were violated. Their DNA was taken from them without permission. Worse, it was taken after they said no TWICE. It was their genetic material, and it was their right to vaporize it. They were not fully formed yet. Not murder in the least.

Ibudan cloned himself for the express purpose of killing him to frame Odo. THAT was murder simply because it was already fully grown and sentient. Premeditated, actually, because he planned to kill him.

 

[Seven of Five]

Is Pulaski a clone of Anne Mulhall from TOS or Miranda Jones from TOS?

I think Pulaski/Jones/Mulhall were all actually Mudd androids.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think Pulaski/Jones/Mulhakk were all actually Mudd androids.

Pulaski was the mother of a clone race of perfect humans in Unnatural Selection.

Sounds like something a Robot would do.

 

[Akiraprise]

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If you don't have access just go to your account preferences and click the opt in to TNZ button. TNZ isn't for everyone. The normal rules that apply here are relaxed in that forum, you may take a little heat at times, but you'll get your debate.

 

[at Quark's]

10. NEVER leave a member of your crew behind.

Except of course when the #crew members retrieved/ time invested waiting ratio drops to 0.5 crew members/week, or below. Say, going 2 weeks further back in time to retrieve Neelix, or going 4 weeks further back in time to retrieve Neelix AND Lt. Carey obviously isn't worth her extra time.

 

[Oddish]

Except of course when the #crew members retrieved/ time invested waiting ratio drops to 0.5 crew members/week, or below. Say, going 2 weeks further back in time to retrieve Neelix, or going 4 weeks further back in time to retrieve Neelix AND Lt. Carey obviously isn't worth her extra time.

I'll give you Carey, his character deserved way better. But Neelix was the only Voyager character who found a satisfying resolution within the series proper; I wouldn't take that away from him.

 

[DonIago]

Yeah, I don't know why anyone would think Neelix needed rescuing at the end, but Carey was inexplicable.

 

[at Quark's]

OK, I'll admit just threw Neelix in for good measure, I agree he didn't need to be saved (unless it would have turned out that, as his colony wasn't very far from a major center of Borg activity, his colony was assimilated soon afterward, even if only during the Borg rebuilding efforts of that Transwarp hub because they needed more drones or something).

Even so, Carey's death is jarring. Especially since Janeway also contends in that episode that 'the urge to explore can't justify the loss of lives, whether it's millions or just one.' So all in all, for Janeway, apparently,
"My time > loss of crew members > justification to explore".

Without irony though, I think it shows that she can live with the loss of a figure like Carey, but not the ones in her 'inner circle', the likes of Seven, Chakotay or Tuvok. Which perhaps is a flaw in her character, but also an understandably human trait.

 

[dupersuper]

Given how easy locating the path to sentience/sapience seems to be (e.g., programming via an advanced alien species, asking the computer for a challenge, leaving the hologram running continuously, removing the perception filters, et cetera)...I'm no longer so certain.

Which is why I hate the Moriarty and Fair /haven episodes: they completely ruin the holodeck. It's either a guilt free video game where Picard can gun some one down as Dixon Hill, Yar can karate kick a sparring partner, Worf can kill every one in a village, Bashir and O'Brien can fight the Alamo, every one can get their Vulcan Love Slave on, etc., etc., or it's a factory for living beings. It can't be both.

 

[Ragitsu]

Which is why I hate the Moriarty and Fair /haven episodes: they completely ruin the holodeck. It's either a guilt free video game where Picard can gun some one down as Dixon Hill, Yar can karate kick a sparring partner, Worf can kill every one in a village, Bashir and O'Brien can fight the Alamo, every one can get their Vulcan Love Slave on, etc., etc., or it's a factory for living beings. It can't be both.

ARMUS: An interesting notion which I do not share.



He's like The Lorax...only, he speaks for the sociopaths.

 

[Oddish]

Given that ship's computers are canonically non-sentient, it doesn't make sense that dozens and possibly hundreds of sentient beings could be stored within their memory banks.

The Doctor could be a special case due to his mobile emitter, but other holograms should be what dupersuper suggested: guilt-free playthings. If you want to rampage through Fair Haven with a flamethrower (and I expect a lot of people on this board would), it should be no problem.

 

[DonIago]

^I'll take "Things we would have seen if Voyager had been given an eighth season" for $500, Alex.

 

[Oddish]

Jeopardy doesn't have $500 clues anymore.

 

[Farscape One]

Thank you, inflation...

 

[Ragitsu]

The Doctor could be a special case due to his mobile emitter

His intelligence was evolving prior to his liberation. Also, I don't recall that piece of technology allowing him to think differently.

 

[Oddish]

But it could have hit a wall when he reached the limit on how far a hologram can evolve. Starfleet could have established that limit after Moriarty was created, not wanting to accidentally produce any more like him.

In the 29th century, where holographic life is common and accepted, mobile emitters don't have that failsafe. Acquiring one allows the EMH to continue his growth.

 

[jackoverfull]

This is pure speculation with no evidence in the series, not even remotely implied.

 

[Oddish]

This is pure speculation with no evidence in the series, not even remotely implied.

Janeway hate? Or hologram limitations? Or something else?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Which is why I hate the Moriarty and Fair /haven episodes: they completely ruin the holodeck. It's either a guilt free video game where Picard can gun some one down as Dixon Hill, Yar can karate kick a sparring partner, Worf can kill every one in a village, Bashir and O'Brien can fight the Alamo, every one can get their Vulcan Love Slave on, etc., etc., or it's a factory for living beings. It can't be both.

A hologram runs for six to 12 years and it is sapient.

A hologram runs for 3 hours it is non sapient.

So it's not murder to run a hologram for 5 years, and 11 moths, and then turn it off and delete its programming and history.

Quintisentially the abortion argument.

It's the abortion

 

[Guy Gardener]

This is pure speculation with no evidence in the series, not even remotely implied.

The aliens from living witness said that a season 4 Doctor was aware enough to answer for the heinous crimes of Captain Janeway... When were they from?

31st century.

Shit.

The Doctor vs. Michael Burnham.

Meanwhile at the dawn of an alt 25th century, the Doctor was legally allowed to marry a human being.

At the climax of the trial about the doctors book, was he aware enough to hold publishing rights, the judge decided that the doctor was aware enough to have publishing rights, but he, the judge, was unwilling to declare the Doctor human rights, because that would fuck up the slave labour that was underpinning the Federation currently, and society would fall apart.

The Doctor is more dangerous to the Federation than a fleet of Dommion capital ships.