When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Ragitsu, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2019
    Location:
    Unimatrix 259
    Perhaps there IS some grounds for my original supposition: That Gibbs's Rules were derived from Janeway's Rules. :shifty:


    It's tough to do when you're living and working on a ship together.
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  2. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Harder still when no one else is available. Your options are date a co-worker, date random passing aliens, date a hologram, or... well, replicate some hand lotion.
     
    Danja likes this.
  3. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    Listening to the Delta Flyers podcast, it really is amazing how often Janeway puts her crew in jeopardy over nothing. There's certainly justification for saying she's a bad captain.

    There are also people who just hate women in starring roles. Can't do anything about that.
     
    jackoverfull and Danja like this.
  4. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    And equally often, the safety and wellbeing of her crew is paramount. Which suggests that she is... well, vacillation prone.
     
    Danja likes this.
  5. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stop. Hemmer time! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    Kate Mulgrew was always brilliant in the role, but the writers never seemed to have a handle on how far she would go to endanger the crew. Dark Frontier is my favourite in that regard. Let's go harass the Borg for the tech. Nothing can go wrong!

    Back during Alliances in S2, when it seemed like VOY was going to explore the trickier experiences the DQ was providing. Even if it was only the Kazon. :D

    Voyager as a lone ship going against enemies should have had more of a realistic approach to Starfleet regulations. But that experience tells her that she needs to cling to their Starfleet values more. Or something?

    Then by S3, in The Swarm, she's willing to endanger the crew by taking a shortcut through somebody's space? A race that just didn't want the ship passing through. :wtf:

    Janeway's major problem is the lack of consistency.
     
  6. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Very true. Another example of the sloppy writing that plagued the show.
     
    Farscape One and Seven of Five like this.
  7. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    You will find folks who believe that the tone of Year of Hell should have been represented across the whole of Voyager; you will not find me among them.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Raining and Pouring
    I believe that. Also that Year of Hell could have been more interesting.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    I think that certain episodes explore certain paths that the crew opted not to take: "Year of Hell" had Voyager getting the crap kicked out of it. "Course Oblivion" had the assorted characters facing death. And "Before and After" had Kes living out her life on Voyager.
     
  10. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    What was "Living Witness": a Janeway hater's late night undercooked buffalo wing with jalapeno cheese sauce-fueled fever dream?
     
    jackoverfull and Oddish like this.
  11. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stop. Hemmer time! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    I always liked the idea of a Year of Hell, but then even something like a month where they're in real trouble? If that had happened every now and then in the series it would have been appreciated.

    The Void was a good example of the crew being stuck and having to work with whatever was around them to get out. It showed everything the show could have beeen.
     
    Farscape One and jackoverfull like this.
  12. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2019
    Location:
    Unimatrix 259
    Star Trek has always been about optimism.

    Dystopia has never played well on American TV (Jericho, Max Headroom, Revolution).
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Why rag on Revolution?
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    No, it was a VOYAGER hater's late night binge on greasy tacos with jalapeno cheese sauce, extra hot salsa, cayenne pepper, and industrial strength fire sauce.
     
  15. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2019
    Location:
    Unimatrix 259
    I'm not ragging on it.

    I'm stating a fact. It was part of that genre.
     
  16. YetAnotherSubspaceAnomaly

    YetAnotherSubspaceAnomaly Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2022
    I think that’s an ahistorical reading. In the 90’s the US was out of major conflicts and war crimes were things that happened in Bosnia. DS9 was examining the ethics of war in a vacuum: a society that still believed in the “end of history” and a post-Cold War liberal, capitalist hegemony in which major-scale conflict was no longer a realistic possibility. It was after 9/11 that the US openly started committing and defending war crimes. In light of that shift, I think I agree that DS9’s politics have aged poorly. In The Pale Moonlight becomes a lot harder to watch after the US lied its way into war.
     
    dupersuper likes this.
  17. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    The obsession with the post-apocalypse was somewhat disturbing.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Raining and Pouring
    The Walking Dead.

    Though their toys sold really well.
     
    Danja likes this.
  19. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    Tuvix Shmuvix...what about the most understated victim during Janeway's career as Captain of the USS Voyager?

    [​IMG]

    R.I.P. Frannie.

    [​IMG]
     
    Seven of Five and jackoverfull like this.
  20. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Does that mean Barclay committed mass murder at the end of "Hollow Pursuits" when he deleted all Barclay programs*? Because, you know, the Three Musketeers, pie-munching Wesley, Mini-me Number One, the Goddess of Empathy, all gone bye-bye.

    *Except Program 9.