I think they thought ultimate fanwank = crossover. They just didn't think to make it a very good crossover.
What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"
- Thread starter You_Will_Fail
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doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Many things went wrong with "These Are The Voyages..."
For starters, being that it was the final broadcast episode of Star Trek in any form for the foreseeable future, there was already a big burden on it so I don't know that anything would have been "good enough" for all the fans.
And while bookending the episode with the Riker-Troi subplot was kind of a neat idea, the fact of the matter is the Riker-Troi stuff does not gel with the story of "The Pegasus," and as a result just comes across as gimmicky.
Another problem is the jarring jump to six years in the future from the previous episode, at the end of NX-01's tour of duty. Nobody's been promoted in the intervening six years, T'Pol's still running around in spandex, and apart from nametags and a couple of columns on the bridge, nothing has really changed. Take a look at a season one episode of TNG and compare it to a season six episode. There are tons of subtle changes that occurred over the years that mark the passage of time; TATV failed in pretty much every way to create this "effect."
Shran. The idea that Shran would suddenly become a criminal and be off in hiding was rather convenient, strained credibility and was on the whole rather disappointing. A much more interesting development would have been to have Shran be Archer's XO, and have them on some mission to rescue T'Pol from some crazy Vulcan crisis. Shran and Trip can be bitchy with each other and all three can be glad when they rescue T'Pol for obvious reasons. I'm just spitballing here.
Archer's speech was previously described as a big fucking deal ... and we never get to see it. Seems like a minor, nitpicky gripe but if you take US civics and you hear all semester long about how great Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech is and then never get to hear it... well, it's kind of a letdown. Certainly I'm not comparing Archer, or Berman and Braga for that matter, to Martin Luther King ... just using a superficial example to illustrate the point.
Finally, while I get that the finale should have "raised the stakes" and there "needed" to be a price or sacrifice, it was just so totally hollow the way Trip died. When Tasha Yar died, we got a beautiful funeral scene and eulogy. How many times did we think other characers were offed and yet still ... we got lovely scenes, like Picard grieving for Data at the beginning of "The Most Toys" or the crew in anguish over Picard in "Gambit" ... the zany party for Geordi and Ro in "The Next Phase" ... the point simply being that having barely any of the Enterprise characters noticing that Trip was killed, to have them just sitting back and chillaxin' at the UFP conference as though nothing had happened ... it's tacky. And lazy.
And while it was nice to see Frakes, Sirtis and hear Spiner one more time ... the fact is by the time TATV aired they just looked plain old. Really, the gimmick of having a few of the previous series' characters "look back" at Archer's time should have been saved for it's own episode when it didn't have so many other things to accomplish.
Pluses of the episode however are definitely as follows: Seeing the TNG Enterprise again, the ending monologue recreated with Shatner's voiceover, Stewarts, and at long last Bakula's ... and from a production standpoint I thought it was rather nice that so many of the behind-the-scenes people got to have a quick cameo at the end.
In my own perfect world, TATV was just another episode ... a penultimate jaunt before a big, awesome, epic two-hour extravaganza that exists in my own imagination. And I'm cool with that.
For starters, being that it was the final broadcast episode of Star Trek in any form for the foreseeable future, there was already a big burden on it so I don't know that anything would have been "good enough" for all the fans.
And while bookending the episode with the Riker-Troi subplot was kind of a neat idea, the fact of the matter is the Riker-Troi stuff does not gel with the story of "The Pegasus," and as a result just comes across as gimmicky.
Another problem is the jarring jump to six years in the future from the previous episode, at the end of NX-01's tour of duty. Nobody's been promoted in the intervening six years, T'Pol's still running around in spandex, and apart from nametags and a couple of columns on the bridge, nothing has really changed. Take a look at a season one episode of TNG and compare it to a season six episode. There are tons of subtle changes that occurred over the years that mark the passage of time; TATV failed in pretty much every way to create this "effect."
Shran. The idea that Shran would suddenly become a criminal and be off in hiding was rather convenient, strained credibility and was on the whole rather disappointing. A much more interesting development would have been to have Shran be Archer's XO, and have them on some mission to rescue T'Pol from some crazy Vulcan crisis. Shran and Trip can be bitchy with each other and all three can be glad when they rescue T'Pol for obvious reasons. I'm just spitballing here.
Archer's speech was previously described as a big fucking deal ... and we never get to see it. Seems like a minor, nitpicky gripe but if you take US civics and you hear all semester long about how great Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech is and then never get to hear it... well, it's kind of a letdown. Certainly I'm not comparing Archer, or Berman and Braga for that matter, to Martin Luther King ... just using a superficial example to illustrate the point.
Finally, while I get that the finale should have "raised the stakes" and there "needed" to be a price or sacrifice, it was just so totally hollow the way Trip died. When Tasha Yar died, we got a beautiful funeral scene and eulogy. How many times did we think other characers were offed and yet still ... we got lovely scenes, like Picard grieving for Data at the beginning of "The Most Toys" or the crew in anguish over Picard in "Gambit" ... the zany party for Geordi and Ro in "The Next Phase" ... the point simply being that having barely any of the Enterprise characters noticing that Trip was killed, to have them just sitting back and chillaxin' at the UFP conference as though nothing had happened ... it's tacky. And lazy.
And while it was nice to see Frakes, Sirtis and hear Spiner one more time ... the fact is by the time TATV aired they just looked plain old. Really, the gimmick of having a few of the previous series' characters "look back" at Archer's time should have been saved for it's own episode when it didn't have so many other things to accomplish.
Pluses of the episode however are definitely as follows: Seeing the TNG Enterprise again, the ending monologue recreated with Shatner's voiceover, Stewarts, and at long last Bakula's ... and from a production standpoint I thought it was rather nice that so many of the behind-the-scenes people got to have a quick cameo at the end.
In my own perfect world, TATV was just another episode ... a penultimate jaunt before a big, awesome, epic two-hour extravaganza that exists in my own imagination. And I'm cool with that.
^ 005, have you read The Good That Men Do, and if so, do you think it made TATV any less of a waste?
Shran's plot in TATV is quite possibly the most disappointing thing about the episode, IMO.
We now know that they were thinking of having Shran join the crew of the NX-01 in the fifth season. So, why didn't they do that?!
Instead, he becomes a failed businessman who doesn't have the where-with-all to deal with some criminals and has to come to Archer begging for help.Let me spitball here for a second (and please, if any of this happens in the relaunch novels, don't tell me because I'm currently in the process of reading them)....
Shran is dishonorably discharged from the Imperial Guard for the loss of the Kumari. Having been a career military officer for most of his life he turns to the one man who he feels can help him remain in the "military," Archer. Archer asks Starfleet to grant Shran a commission, much the same way as they did with T'Pol. Starfleet agrees but insists that Shran serve aboard the NX-01 since Archer has more experience with Andorians than anyone else in the fleet and because he already has a relationship with Shran himself.
Archer works out a plan for Shran to be his new Tactical Officer while Reed takes over as head of the MACOs. Shran serves with distinction on Enterprise, earning the trust and respect of not just Archer and the crew, but of Starfleet Command. He also regains a sliver of trust with the Imperial Guard due to his service during the Romulan War.
By the time TATV comes around, Shran's subplot deals with him having to decide whether he wishes to remain in the newly christened UFP Starfleet or return to Andoria as a military advisor. Ultimately he chooses to leave Starfleet and return to Andoria with the newly minted Ambassador Archer as his chief advisor and liaison with the Andorian government.
All of that sounds much more compelling to me than, "Hey we haven't seen you for six years but we'll gladly help you save your daughter from a bunch of thugs."
Speaking of Shran: It occurs to me that his involvement with criminals isn't the only character assassination inflicted on our Andorian hero.
In the aftermath of "The Andorian Incident," Shran couldn't sleep because he felt indebted to Archer.
Yet here, his appeal to help rescue his daughter precipitates the events that will lead to Trip's death.
And we never see him again. Yet one would think he would have the decency to turn up at some point to offer condolences to Archer and T'Pol.
Just one more example of crappy writing or film editing.
Actually I think it'd be better the other way around: Shran as head of the MACOs, with Reed remaining at tactical. Shran is more of an experienced ground soldier than Reed, I think.
I would prefer to see Shran as a bridge officer.
^Exactly, either position would make sense. But I'd rather see him on the bridge.
And with Shran as head of the MACOs, that would have required B&B to have the MACOs in the episode - something they seemed intent on avoiding.
And with Shran as head of the MACOs, that would have required B&B to have the MACOs in the episode - something they seemed intent on avoiding.
I quite like TATV really. It was the end not only of Enterprise, but of an unbroken run of Star Trek on TV from the beginning of TNG, so with that in mind I appreciate the Riker/Troi bit. Also it helps confirm Enterprise's place in the Trek universe (considering some haters like to pretend it didn't happen). I suppose I'd be more bothered if I didn't consider Enterprise's big weakness to be many of its characters. Trip just seemed like a bit of an idiot to me, and while I didn't dislike him as such, I didn't care much either way, so killing him didn't really bother me all that much. As for lack of development among the others, I'm really not fussed. Shran was a good character who could be many things, so him being in a bit of criminal trouble 6 years down the line didn't ring false for me. As for Archer's speech, there's no way showing it could have lived up to expectation. All in all, I enjoy the episode. And the last scene is completely fantastic.
I have. And I don't.
I would have much rather believed that Trip had been a part of the Enterprise crew during the Romulan war, or even gotten his own ship. The spy stuff doesn't ring true for me. But at least it undid his death.
Star I have to ask. Who is the handsome Vulcan in your avatar? I checked Memory Alpha to no avail........
It is Soval in the Mirror Universe ("In a Mirror, Darkly" part 2). You can go to trekcore and see the ENT screencaps of that episode (near the end of season 4). Both of them (part one and part two) are sadly not available for viewing on hulu.com, which I find utterly reprehensible.
If you have managed not to see them, you must at least rent the season 4 dvds to view them. Loads of fun and T'Pol with long hair.
^ Plus, President Charles Logan as a Mirror Universe Admiral.
I love the concept of Troi and Riker watching them on the holodeck, it validates Enterprise. But obviously the story here was bad, and they shouldn't have set it during the events of Pegasus. Give it to us when they're on the Titan, that woulda been fucking awesomez.
A
Amaris
Guest
I agree, even though I have many issues with TATV, I can say that it was nice to see Riker and Troi together again, one last time.
Didn't Frakes and Sirtis once joke that they were keen on doing the story of Riker and Troi's marriage as a traditional TV sitcom? 
Saquist
Commodore
Most of the last seasons was a gimmick.
Brent Spiner and the Doctor Soon thing, the Mirror Mirror episodes....They took 3 years to figure out that the Enterprise Identity they had created had fallen short on alot of viewers so they went into repair mode trying to ingratiate the fans to watch.
Most gimmicks are successful like this one. But it doesn't mean that it wasn't a blow to Star Trek and cheap attempt to gather nostalgia in the area of DS9's Trials and Tribblations and VOY's Flashback.
When those series did the episodes it was fully planned, given the UTMOST respect and more importantly didn't follow an absolute raping of Trek canon and continuity. Nothing says I really care how you feel fans, like shafting the original Trek Source.
Brent Spiner and the Doctor Soon thing, the Mirror Mirror episodes....They took 3 years to figure out that the Enterprise Identity they had created had fallen short on alot of viewers so they went into repair mode trying to ingratiate the fans to watch.
Most gimmicks are successful like this one. But it doesn't mean that it wasn't a blow to Star Trek and cheap attempt to gather nostalgia in the area of DS9's Trials and Tribblations and VOY's Flashback.
When those series did the episodes it was fully planned, given the UTMOST respect and more importantly didn't follow an absolute raping of Trek canon and continuity. Nothing says I really care how you feel fans, like shafting the original Trek Source.
Saquist said:
Seriously?
Riker and Troi:
Seven years on TNG
Generations
First Contact
Insurrection
Nemesis
Riker: VOY ("Death Wish")
Troi: VOY ("Inside Man," "Life Line," "Pathfinder")
Seems to me Jonathan and Marina's characters had plenty of exposure as opposed to the cast Enterprise fans wanted to see in this final episode.
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