What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"

[LogicSparkyness]

I don't understand all this hatred for These Are The Voyages.
It wasn't one of the best episodes, but had its moment.
I could live without the Riker/Troi presence, but I enjoyed the story anyway.
The bad thing is that this was the very last episode of Enterprise

 

[Shatnertage]

I've got to somewhat agree with Gaith in that I'm not as up on Demons/Terra Prime as most of the people around here, but I can't really argue against those who've laid out their reasons for disliking TATV, particularly when the episode's own writer doesn't even defend it anymore.

I don't really like the "epic" finales/season cliffhangers, so my choice for ENT's finale would have been...."Observer Effect."

Yes, it was a bottle show. No, it didn't have massive space battles. But it had some great character moments and Archer's speech at the end really laid out the case for the human adventure.

With a little revision, it would have made a great finale, given what we'd seen from ENT over four seasons. Maybe a last scene with Archer getting a subspace message that he's to come back to Earth to help negotiate a treaty between the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites, and the Observers remarking that yes, humanity does have potential. Dissolve to the three captains giving the monologue, and it's good for me.

 

[BriannaLee]

I - Surak - find T'Pol chatting with and confiding in the cook utterly disbelievable.
In addition the TNG or VOY or whatever characters looked like they were rescued from the street. He had that bloated drunk look and the short troll woman was simply disgusting. What a horrible end to the best Star Trek series of them all.

My feelings exactly !!!!!!!

 

[Gary7]

When I started reading this thread, my mind filled up with all the things I found unpleasant and disappointing with "These Are The Voyages...", but by the time I got through the first page it was mostly covered. JiNX-01, you did a great job of picking it apart. Bravo.

And of course, GodBen did a great dissertation on the episode. Thanks for linking to it, Admiral Shran.

TATV was one of the most disappointing ENT episodes for me... for all the reasons already stated. But what particularly annoyed me was resurrecting Riker and Troi. Not only was the "reason" for the holodeck simulation very weak, I just find these two characters no longer of interest. Frakes was always a bit too stiff and lacking in talent for my taste. Sirtis got better over time, no question, but her "romantic play" as Troi with Riker was not believable to me. And what was with these horribly blatant gaffs like "I never kissed you with a beard before"?

ENT deserved a much better send off. You could even tell the actors didn't have their usual spark. They knew this was the last one and they were miserable about it... it showed through, to me anyway.

Oh well...

 

[JiNX-01]

Ah, another TATV thread. All the venom directed at this abomination makes me happy.

And so, I again offer a link to TheGodBen's excellent review of this travesty....

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3777372&postcount=929

To which I shall add Keckler's brilliant re-cap:

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/enterprise/these_are_the_voyages.php

It wasn't one of the best episodes, but had its moment.

Really? Which one?

 

[gblews]

TATV was far from perfect, but it did have Riker and Troi, a senior staff death, a glimpse at the Federation's founding, Phlox's double-wide smile, the inexplicably unseen chef (sort of), names on uniforms and no gratuitous Mirror sleaze or sexist dreck.

Some, apparently, are more easily pleased than others.

BTW, FYI - TaTV received over 300 grades of F or lower in this forum back when it first aired - despite the appearances of Riker and Troi.

 

[JiNX-01]

Problem No. 10:

But there are always some new gems.

I'm don't know what this means ^.

 

[zar]

It wasn't one of the best episodes, but had its moment.

Really? Which one?

The last 40 seconds, I believe.

 

[TheRealStarbuck]

My main problem with the episode is that they included Riker and Troi. I thought it was nothing but a pointless gimmick, and disrespectful to the cast of Enterprise. If nothing else, they should have been allowed to go out on their own.

 

[Gaith]

Some, apparently, are more easily pleased than others.

Given the widespread approval for crap like Mirror, Darkly and Demons/Terra Prime, I've got to agree.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Whatever view one may have of TGTMD, I found the making-sense-of-the-senseless stuff to be cathartic. When Archer and Trip were in the middle of staging his faked death and realizing how lame it was, it gave me a good laugh.

Wasn't there a scene in the aired episode where Trip (as he's about to be wheeled into the scanner, presumably mortally wounded) turns to Archer and winks?

 

[JiNX-01]

It wasn't one of the best episodes, but had its moment.

Really? Which one?

The last 40 seconds, I believe.

Oh, yeah. That one.

 

[Jax]

Given the widespread approval for crap like Mirror, Darkly and Demons/Terra Prime, I've got to agree.

If you think they are crap god you must hate TATV more than me because theres almost nothing worser in the TREK franchise.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

If it was in the middle of the season, and not the finale, then it may have gone over better. Terra Prime works best as a finale anyways.

I notice that a lot of people think it wouldn't have been so bad if it had been aired during an earlier season, as opposed to being the "finale."

My response: The timing of a crappy episode's broadcast has no impact on its quality.

Totally. Even if this had been a TNG ep, it would have been crap. The characterisation was sloppy (someone mentioned Barclay and that was spot on. He doesn't get furious), and the whole scenario of Riker playing a simulation to help him decide something is bollocks.

It's a bad stand-alone episode, and the worst show finale of all time.

 

[Gaith]

someone mentioned Barclay and that was spot on. He doesn't get furious

Just to play devil's advocate, that could easily have been an understated joke on Troi's part.

And, as I said before, at least the ep wasn't sexist dreck like "Bound."

 

[I am Surak]

And, as I said before, at least the ep wasn't sexist dreck like "Bound."

Ahh - sexist dreck. I personally would have the orion slave girls prefered to be prettier but hey....

Bound is of course a stellar episode because of the Trip/T'Pol reunification, their kiss and my absolute favorite T'Pol facial expression as she leaves trip, stops, looks to the right, looks left and then turns. Smizing all the way.
And all it took to see that was having to endure Orion slave girls............

 

[I am Surak]

You can humour me for being new to the trek universe but I just went on Memory Alpha and found out that the two horrible people on TATV are called Riker and Troi and - yes get your barf bags - they are a couple.
Have ye No Shame?
Another reason for me to never watch TNG,VOY or DS9.

 

[Agenda]

^Hey, I don't ship that ship, either.

Now, Worf/Troi, on the other hand...

 

[AMQ]

You can humour me for being new to the trek universe but I just went on Memory Alpha and found out that the two horrible people on TATV are called Riker and Troi and - yes get your barf bags - they are a couple.
Have ye No Shame?
Another reason for me to never watch TNG,VOY or DS9.

They were interesting before they actually got together, will they/won't they was really good
I didn't really like what they made of them in films.
PS - great avatar

 

[F. King Daniel]

Riker and Troi were kinda funny - they did the will they/won't they for about 5 years, Troi got off with Worf, Worf left for DS9 and then finally the aging Riker and Troi married, seemingly out of fear of dying alone.