I'm sorry, but her tone didn't have the ring of being a joke. Which means either Marina needs to work on her delivery or it wasn't supposed to be a joke.
What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"
- Thread starter You_Will_Fail
- Start date
- Status
Wheeooo, looks like a lot of folks have a need to vent this time around, about a variety of things!
Just trying to summarize your meticulously detailed list of wrongness without quoting the entire thing.I'm don't know what this means ^.
A
Amaris
Guest
^ I find it to be a handy reference as to why I so dislike that episode. Thing is, I'm only a casual ENT fan (the last two seasons made me want 2 more seasons like those), but I understood every bit as to why TATV was a slap in the face to anyone with any genuine dedication to the series. I hate what they did to Trip, I hate how they treated the ENT cast on their finale, I hate what they did to the great TNG episode "The Pegasus", and I think the whole cast and crew of ENT deserved better than a kiss off like that.
What do you have against quoting my entire post? It should be quoted gladly and often.
Agreed!
This is going to take a while:
Problem No. 1: The "framing device" is an 11-year-old episode of TNG, which means that pretty much everybody watching would already know how Riker makes his decision concerning the Pegasus device. And it bears NO RESEMBLANCE to what occurs in "This Ain't The Valentine."
Problem No. 2a: Bizarre characterization.
-- Having seen "The Pegasus," I remember Riker being under a great deal of stress. In TATV, you'd think he didn't have a care in the world: smiling while having a relaxing drink with Troi in Ten Forward, inviting her to dinner... At one point Troi tells Riker she has a counseling appointment with Barclay and if she's late "Reg will be furious." WTF?! More likely, Reg would be apologizing to her for being on time.
-- Archer had faced danger on many occasions throughout the NX-01's travels (including a suicide mission in Azati Prime) and yet Trip handled every one of those instances without going to pieces.
-- Trip was a pretty gifted engineer and the best plan to save Archer that he could come up with was to blow himself up.
-- Shran, who always seemed pretty savvy to me, couldn't tell the difference between business partners and criminals.
Problem 2b: The drink, the dinner invitation and Troi going off to her appointment, along with their little tour of the NX-01 took precious time away from the regular cast and added absolutely NOTHING to this 43-minute finale. It was the very last episode of Enterprise and supposedly a farewell to all of Trek for a while (tho' the only references made to other Trek were tributes to TNG).
Problem No. 3: According to "Bound," Trip and T'Pol were bonded mates. The excruciatingly touching scene at the end of Terra Prime is wiped out by a break-up that is mentioned but goes unexplained.
Problem No. 4: What kind of moron actually writes a SPOILER into a script?
Problem No. 5: An intruder alert is sounded and Archer and Trip dash off to confront the intruders without stopping by the armory.
Problem No. 6: Where the hell were Reed and the MACOs? Confined to their quarters?
Problem No. 7: No death scene. Did we really need one? Maybe not. But since...
Problem No. 8: ... There was no service for Trip, I think there should have been one. (Sim served Enterprise for two weeks and he got a funeral. In "A Night in Sickbay" Archer actually dreams about holding a funeral for his DOG.)
Problem No. 9: T'Pol is alone in Trip's quarters packing up his things. Archer arrives. T'Pol gripes that Trip told her that as time passed she would miss her mother less. She wants to know why he said that. Archer, the speechmaker could come up with nothing but cliches. Besides, I doubt very much that Trip would have told T'Pol that. Does anyone who actually watched the show doubt that Trip still missed his sister?
Problem No. 10: At the signing ceremony, nobody... and I mean NOBODY among Trip's so-called friends lament his absence. Archer, T'Pol and Phlox are in the green room waiting for the ceremony to begin. Archer is fretting about his speech, T'Pol is fretting about Archer's inability to dress himself, Phlox is just as cheery and perky as ever ... Malcolm, Hoshi and Travis are in the audience either griping about their nosebleed seats or chatting about their career ambitions.
^ Well, I did have a sig for a while that quoted Crewman No. 6 asking Bermaga if they ever watched the show.
Paramount has a policy that prohibit authors from writing anything that contradicts what has occurred on screen in their novels. "The Good That Men Do" is the exception to that rule. Margaret Clark, the editor of the Enterprise novels at the time, contacted the suits and got permission to "unkill Trip."
That whole Chef as ship's counselor? Honest to God, I couldn't believe they pulled that out of their colons! In ANIS, Phlox told Archer he had a degree in psychology. Why the hell would the crew be going to the cook?!
This post deserves to be quoted as many times as needed because it's definitely the best answer to any thread regarding TATV.
I like all problems, my favorites are 3, 4, 7, 9, did I mention 6, 2a...
Thankfully I've only had to force myself to watch "the episode" once, so my memory is a little hazy on all the details of it. What spoiler are you referring to?
Ah okay, if that's what it is, then that makes sense. That line was awful.
Foreshadowing needs to be much more subtle than that - like in The Sixth Sense (all of his actions point to the fact that he's dead, but it's done in a way that you don't realize it until it's finally thrown in your face). It shouldn't be "Yeah, he's gonna die here soon so prepare yourselves."
If they put it in a way that could also mean that he won't be back because it's their last mission on Enterprise etc it would make sense or at least have better effect. But I think that point of that entire episode from the first to the last second was to shock, so when she says that he is not coming back, everyone goes like - wait, what did she just say? 
Foreshadowing. Right.
Actually that line is a huge
DUUUUH. Because even in fiction characters don't know if/when they are going to DIE, unless it is clearly imminent, and in this case it wasn't.
Cast unrest? Well, that doesn't seem so surprising considering how the execution of the episode went.
"Execution" being the key word.
For me, this was one strange way of bringing an era to an end. You have Trip killed off and you don't any real feelings of loss. Riker and Troi wandering around getting all mushy. And why weren't the close friends and crew of Archer near the front, after all they we're there doing all these historic journeys with him. This whole programme was the final nail in the coffin of the greatest space series ever seen!
What gets me is did Bermaga really think that the fans would be simply overjoyed by seeing Riker and Troi again? I mean, they weren't even in the top three of TNG characters to begin with, and at that point we had just seen them in the shitfest of Star Trek Nemesis! Not to mention that there were three other Trek series with a host of characters that rank far above those two. So what's so "valentinish" about having them in it?
And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against either of them, I'm just trying to be objective.
And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against either of them, I'm just trying to be objective.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
