Disillusioned
Commander
I don't really think of any point of convergence. Sort of like the Mirror Universe that way. Sort of like the different Slider universes - each simply developed on its own.
What was the Kelvin doing in the Prime Universe?
- Thread starter CaptainPipcard
- Start date
I don't think the movie is connected to the Prime Trekverse at all. It's a parallel with a similar time line that was then altered. The film shows nothing that matched up to the Prime. The technology was different, Vulcan was different, attitudes seemed different, characters' ages were different.
To answer the opening question -
The Kelvin seemed to be returning to Earth (presumed) from and exploration/survey mission.
To answer the opening question -
The Kelvin seemed to be returning to Earth (presumed) from and exploration/survey mission.
I'm still of the mind that the JJ-verse goes back much further than the Narda's appearance. Not that thinking that makes the movie any better for me or anything, but that's the way I think of it.
That would be right, when NuKirk and crew go back to the 20th Century at least 4 times they couldn't have ended up in the same universe as the original, so the NuTrek Universe would have existed at least since then.
Maybe even further back if NuData gets sent back the 19th Century and meets up with NuGuinan.
That's probably right, it's hard to imagine countless decisions made by countless people and things creating more countless universes every fraction of a second all the time, and what determines where the conscious that we know of splits to and our other split off conscious's, how come we don't experience them.
Another thing is each universe has it's own quantum signature which remains constant.
Once again, Orci and Kurtzman explained this: the attack of the Narada changed the course of technology. It's akin to how weaponry and ship design changed after the events of Q Who and Best of Both Worlds to prepare for the Borg.
How so? How much of Vulcan did we see in the past? The architecture and arid desert seem to be consistent in all its incarnations, including Enterprise.
Let's also remember that this band is younger than we've seen before, and most of them have to mature. Aside from Pike, Scotty, and McCoy, of course. Plus, the people who impacts Young Spock's lives the most, his parents, are still pretty much the voice of reason they had always been in previous Trek.
Aside from one character, who else?
Well, I'm going by what's presented in the film itself and not what's been told in interviews. What they say off screen isn't the story presented. As it is, the time incursion occurred after the Kelvin was already in existence. It's own technology and design is far different then anything from the Prime universe. The explanation your giving does not fit as it doesn't address that. A retroactive change is not possible.
Mind you, for things said off screen, I like them or JJ Abrahms saying that the transporter work differently then before. Thing is, there's nothing in the film that actually says or displays that.
In the past, Vulcan was shown as having a different architecture then that presented in the film as well as the planet having a rather massive moon. Then there's the atmosphere being now blue instead of rusty.
No, it's not that I'm siting so much the main characters, but all. They seemed far more contemporary then what was once displayed. But that could be ignorable and just something I thought more then found.
I don't think Uhura nor Sulu were supposed to be the same age as Kirk. Also, Scotty did seem to be younger. Even Pike's age seemed greater then it was in the Prime.
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But what's wrong with the Kelvin's tech? It seemed like a grimmer and grittier hybrid of TOS/Enterprise. Let's also note that the tech on the NX-01, for some inexplicable reason, seems more complicated than TOS. Heck, the Kelvin and the NX-01 both have pop-out turrets. We see TOS style communicators and shuttles on the Kelvin, hear many reminiscent sound effects, and beam phasers. The only real difference is the main viewer, and again I'd counter that by saying we never really saw computer interfaces such as Sulu's console screen, the internals of Spock's scanner scope, or any given tricorder's screen.
And then, why stop there? I've long wondered why Cochrane's Phoenix warped the same way as all other TNG ships, when TOS and the TOS movies had different warp "styles." The NX-01 as well has weapons that look like TNG-era tech. Enemies also have TNG-era tractor beams as well.
The planet from space still looks rusty in the movie. And the architecture always had columns and a rigid, sharp aesthetic to it, in TOS, TVH, Enterprise, and this film.
Is that really a fault, though? You'll still have Uhura in TUC mentioning the centuries-old 'tailpipe,' and even Picard would use 20th century phrases that apparently survive into the 24th century.
How odd is it that we see Archer in jeans in the 22nd century, no jeans at all in the age of TOS, but Kirk in jeans again in TFF? I don't think being "contemporary" is necessarily a detriment, as some points of reference between modern day and the setting of the story will always come through in sci-fi.
How did Scotty seem younger, though? I thought Simon Pegg was roughly the same age as James Doohan when he took the role, and additionally, this is supposed to be just a few years earlier than the events of TOS anyway.
However, if you're using the logic that going by what's said on screen is the only info that should be applied (and there's nothing wrong with that reasoning, either), shouldn't it be consistent? There's nothing here that says Uhura or Sulu's ages have changed. No birth dates were mentioned that would be different than what we've seen in other Trek (except logically for Kirk himself).
Kirk entered Starfleet at an age when many other cadets would be graduating already. He was a late recruit. Assuming that Uhura and Sulu entered the Academy at age 18, Uhura is still younger than Kirk, while Sulu could still be an LT younger than Kirk (Saavik was a Lt. fresh from the Academy herself). Additionally, nowhere in the movie does it say that Sulu himself is a cadet like Kirk and Uhura, either. So just because Kirk is in the same class as Uhura and Sulu has a higher rank doesn't necessarily make them the same age.
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Here's an explanation: showing tech that is less advanced than an Airbus because the original series was made in a time where very primitive computers and special effects tech is silly. As for the phasers, the Alternate-E carried didn't have the CWIS turrets, so one can assume the new phaser banks made them obsolete in both realities.
There's a big difference between cannon violations and making visual updates to make more sense. Accept the events as cannon and some of the visual things as adaptable based on what our own 20/21st century advances.
Considering the X.O. was a O-3 Lieutenant, I would have to believe the 800 number was either an error or a lot of them are civilians.
Disillusioned
Commander
A lot of people to cram into a ship either way, especially if it would presumably be smaller than the original 1701. The scene with the shuttles kind of complicates the idea that it would be a small ship, too, though considering the same issues they had with the new 1701, it could just be a VFX issue. It still seems like it would be a bigger ship though, unless they were all out on cots in the cargo bay or something.
As for the issue of technology, I still think the Kelvin has more in common with the new Enterprise than anything in any previous incarnation of the franchise. Just look at the bridge. It fits well as something that came 20-25 years before the redone Enterprise, but not so well as a sensible update to TOS technology.
As for the issue of technology, I still think the Kelvin has more in common with the new Enterprise than anything in any previous incarnation of the franchise. Just look at the bridge. It fits well as something that came 20-25 years before the redone Enterprise, but not so well as a sensible update to TOS technology.
Disillusioned
Commander
I doubt that it would turn it blue. As for the time period, like I said, it just looks like an older version of what the redone Enterprise has. Visually it has more in common with what JJ Abrams did with the new ship than it does with anything from TOS.
I doubt it was ever NOT blue. The planet has an oxygen atmosphere; scientifically speaking, the Vulcans should be very concerned if it ever turns any other color for a long period of time.
The reddish color is probably the result of atmospheric dust clouds at high altitude and probably comes and goes depending on the time of day. The kinds of gases that would result in a constant red hue at all times would render Vulcan uninhabitable.
Disillusioned
Commander
And scientifically speaking, transporter technology is impossible due to the physics involved. A lot of the science in Star Trek isn't very scientific. So I'm just going by what was seen. It probably would be dust, but it would be a hell of a coincidence to never see a blue sky on Vulcan during the last 40 years.
And daring the Klingons to try to screw with him.
They never do because he scares the shit out of them.
Its a big planet.
Yeah, and at one point it didn't have a moon, but then it did, but then it didn't.
Trek is, and always has been, wildly inconsistent. Given that, I'd rather see them correct old, bad science than stick with 1960's era assumptions out of some creaky sense of tradition.
Disillusioned
Commander
"Correct"? Nothing there to do so with. All they did was make some arbitrary changes of their own.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Amok Time - red
TMP - pretty red, at least in the theatrical
SFS - pretty damned red (and most people give this one credence because it reflects Nimoy's 'vision')
TNG - GAMBIT (have no recollection of how it looked, but doubt it was blue or I'd remember)
So we've seen Vulcan more times than any planet except for klinghome, cardassia and romulus (and when we see those, it is usually the same matte shots, so the color doesn't change.)
You might as well try to justify seatbelts on starships by saying they always had them, we just didn't notice (AND they didn't bother to fasten them for all those eps.)
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