What was the Kelvin doing in the Prime Universe?

[Sci]

Most of the time if you're on Earth, you'll see a blue sky. That doesn't mean that you won't see a non-blue sky other times of the year, or in other locations.

So like I've said, it's just an amazing coincidence that we've pretty consistently seen a reddish sky before this movie?

I'd assume so. I certainly never thought it was particularly realistic that Vulcan's sky was always reddish.

Is there some reason that Starfleet can't have a different design aesthetic in another timeline? Is there some law that says only one design aesthetic is acceptable?

No, I'm just pointing out that even the Kelvin fits much better into this AU Starfleet's design aesthetic than it does in the RU's Starfleet of the same time.

I don't consider that particularly notable. Prior to ST09, we'd already seen, in the course of two hundred years of Starfleet history, at least four different design aesthetics:

1. The aesthetics of the United Earth Starfleet and its Vulcan, Andorian, and Tellarite counterparts, originating prior to the founding of the Federation and apparently extending into the early years of the Federation Starfleet. Prime examples: The NX-class United Earth starships, the Daedalus-class Federation starships.

2. The classic TOS era, apparently extending from the 2240s and into the 2270s. Prime example: The Constitution class.

3. The TOS movie era, apparently extending from about the 2270s to about the 2330s or 2340s. Prime examples: Refit Constitution class, Miranda class, Orbeth class, Excelsior class, Constellation class.

4. The TNG/DS9/VOY era, apparently extending from the 2330s or 2340s to the 2380s (that we've seen). Prime examples: Ambassador class, Galaxy class, Nebula class, Akira class, Defiant class, Intrepid class, Sovereign class.

One could argue that the TNG/DS9/VOY era itself actually contains two separate design aesthetics -- the more rounded aesthetics represented by the Ambassador and Galaxy classes, and the sharper, more militant-looking aesthetic represented by the Defiant, Akira, Intrepid, and Sovereign classes.

What strikes me in particular about it is that the TOS movie era aesthetic diverges sharply from the classic TOS era aesthetic. So sharply, in fact, that it's really kind of shocking to consider how different Starfleet and its starships look in the 2260s vs the 2270s. And, really, the same is true of the TNG-era aesthetic -- it's a very very major divergence from the prior aesthetic.

So the idea that there would be a different aesthetic that existed between the ENT and TOS eras (represented by the U.S.S. Kelvin), and that this aesthetic might have gone out of style in the Prime Timeline by 2245 but stayed in favor in the New Timeline at least until 2258, neither bothers me nor seems particularly implausible.

What, like Trek has ever been particularly plausible about its depictions of time travel? Let's not forget the Magic Flying Ribbon that lets you travel through time and grants wishes; Red Matter is hardly as implausible as that.

Well, considering how many people have pointed out that the Nexus would never have been able to go around the galaxy as often as it was stated given its sub-light speed... Yeah, this is right up there with that sort of thing.

I'd say it's a significant improvement on that sort of thing, actually. The exact properties of Red Matter go unestablished -- and at least it's not apparently psychic.

Actually, what does it matter? There's little connection between The Mists of Avalon and The Once and Future King other than their both being about King Arthur. Does that mean that Mists shouldn't have been written?

Exactly. Doesn't mean I have to like this version or that I won't mercilessly make fun of it, but I've made peace with the idea that it's its own separate take on the story so to speak. Kind of like all the different versions of X-Men or Batman and the like.

Fair enough.

 

[Disillusioned]

I'd assume so. I certainly never thought it was particularly realistic that Vulcan's sky was always reddish.

I always thought it was dust in the sky, personally, since the soil was about that color and there wasn't much for ground cover.

I don't consider that particularly notable. Prior to ST09, we'd already seen, in the course of two hundred years of Starfleet history, at least four different design aesthetics:

I guess I consider it pretty notable that there's so much in common between the Kelvin's bridge and the Enterprise's bridge. And given the era, it's pretty natural to use the TOS era aesthetic for comparison, even allowing for some modernization. There's also the size to consider, since given the large crew and how large the secondary hull would have had to be to scale that way against the shuttles, it's significantly larger than the original Enterprise. That fits in much better with the 700m Enterprise of the movie than it does with TOS.

So the idea that there would be a different aesthetic that existed between the ENT and TOS eras (represented by the U.S.S. Kelvin), and that this aesthetic might have gone out of style in the Prime Timeline by 2245 but stayed in favor in the New Timeline at least until 2258, neither bothers me nor seems particularly implausible.

Fair enough.

I'd say it's a significant improvement on that sort of thing, actually. The exact properties of Red Matter go unestablished -- and at least it's not apparently psychic.

It was still a pretty obvious plot device in the way the Nexus served essentially the same purpose. To say nothing of the villain's priorities considering he had the opportunity to prevent the destruction of his world, but chose to seek revenge instead. But that's another discussion.

 

[Sci]

I'd say it's a significant improvement on that sort of thing, actually. The exact properties of Red Matter go unestablished -- and at least it's not apparently psychic.

It was still a pretty obvious plot device in the way the Nexus served essentially the same purpose. To say nothing of the villain's priorities considering he had the opportunity to prevent the destruction of his world, but chose to seek revenge instead. But that's another discussion.

I think it was fairly obvious that Nero intended to wipe out the Federation and then use the Red Matter to stop the Hobus star from getting all 'splodey.

 

[Disillusioned]

Like I said, priorities.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Like I said, priorities.

Well Nero did have over a century to take out Hobus.

 

[Timo]

Hobus is in the Romulan sphere of influence in the late 24th century. What's to say it's there in the early 23rd? Borders do keep shifting.

Now, granted that the Romulan Neutral Zone has a definite tendency not to budge much even when superpowers quarrel across it. But there are references to things being renegotiated between the UFP and the RSE on occasion. And Romulus itself probably sits very close to Earth, thus making possible the heated conflict of the past and the brinkmanship politicking of the later Romulans (c.f. the location of Seoul wrt the two Koreas); Hobus could lie right in between.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Disillusioned]

Well Nero did have over a century to take out Hobus.

Yeah, but why do next decade what you can do today? And as it turned out he never got the chance.