Spoilers What If...? discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Nope, nope, nope. Not going to click on that. Nope...
Peggy is having waaaay too much fun! 
Some people on Twitter are upset that Captain Carter replaced Sam Wilson on the Captain America Twitter account. Apparently some people don’t know what marketing is.
https://indianexpress.com/article/e...replaces-sam-wilson-ahead-of-what-if-7446689/
https://indianexpress.com/article/e...replaces-sam-wilson-ahead-of-what-if-7446689/
The series is off to rip-roaring success with "What If....Peggy Carter was the First Avenger?" While I might have felt a little rushed, the story still managed to emulate the powerful story of The First Avenger but with Peggy in the lead role. As someone who just happens to be in the middle of an Agent Carter rewatch, the sexism she still experienced after becoming Captain Carter directly reflects the same sexism she experienced post-WWII with the SSR, if only through Gen. Flynn because of the truncated nature of the story.
Speaking of Flynn, I don't recall if it had been it had been stated in Marvel One-Shot: Agent Carter if he had been a veteran, let alone a general, so the set-up is already a bit different than the diverging universe riding on Peggy's simple choice of staying in the room. In fact, there are several different factors: Flynn as a general, Flynn leading the super soldier program instead of Gen. Phillips, and the guests were in the lab directly instead of an observation room, which allowed Kruger to have a more direct impact with his bomb (and he activated it before the experiment started). I don't mind these changes in the set-up because, if I recall correctly, that happened occasionally (or often) in the comic, too, but it is a bit disingenuous of Uatu to make the claim that a whole new universe was created by a single choice. I imagine that's going to be the case throughout these stories so I'm going to try not harp on that too much, but it did stand out to me.
Coming back to the core of the story, I loved how history played out differently yet with similar parallels. Because of Peggy's more proactive action, she was able to capture the Tesseract while Zole was en route to Berlin, thus allowing Stark to create the Hydra Stomper (what an awesome name!). While obviously Steve's new armor is suppose to invoke Iron Man Mark I and the Iron Monger, I was more reminded of the Iron Giant, not just because of the animation style and the near Cold War setting, but also because of how the suit moved and its heroic nature.
I also loved how Steve found himself trading places with Bucky on the train, leading to his capture by Hydra, even if they were just more interested in the Tesseract than Steve and it was awfully convenient how they didn't just kill the scrawny guy. It was nice that Steve still got the chance to show his noble side in a different way, while not also getting in the way of Peggy's larger story and how she, in turn, made the greater sacrifice to save the planet...and miss out on that dance.
To those who know Marvel cosmic lore better than I do, any ideas on the identity of the creature Red Skull foolishly tried to unleash on Earth? Initially I thought they were going to tie-in with the Hydra origins that Agents of SHIELD explored but this creature is very different from Hive (unless this is some form of it?).
Lastly, even though we knew Chris Evans wasn't returning as Steve, I thought Josh Keaton did a very good job performing scrawny Steve, much like the returning Ross Marquand did once again with Red Skull. Also, it was great to hear Stanley Tucci and Toby Jones reprise their roles, even if they didn't have much to do.
Speaking of Flynn, I don't recall if it had been it had been stated in Marvel One-Shot: Agent Carter if he had been a veteran, let alone a general, so the set-up is already a bit different than the diverging universe riding on Peggy's simple choice of staying in the room. In fact, there are several different factors: Flynn as a general, Flynn leading the super soldier program instead of Gen. Phillips, and the guests were in the lab directly instead of an observation room, which allowed Kruger to have a more direct impact with his bomb (and he activated it before the experiment started). I don't mind these changes in the set-up because, if I recall correctly, that happened occasionally (or often) in the comic, too, but it is a bit disingenuous of Uatu to make the claim that a whole new universe was created by a single choice. I imagine that's going to be the case throughout these stories so I'm going to try not harp on that too much, but it did stand out to me.
Coming back to the core of the story, I loved how history played out differently yet with similar parallels. Because of Peggy's more proactive action, she was able to capture the Tesseract while Zole was en route to Berlin, thus allowing Stark to create the Hydra Stomper (what an awesome name!). While obviously Steve's new armor is suppose to invoke Iron Man Mark I and the Iron Monger, I was more reminded of the Iron Giant, not just because of the animation style and the near Cold War setting, but also because of how the suit moved and its heroic nature.
I also loved how Steve found himself trading places with Bucky on the train, leading to his capture by Hydra, even if they were just more interested in the Tesseract than Steve and it was awfully convenient how they didn't just kill the scrawny guy. It was nice that Steve still got the chance to show his noble side in a different way, while not also getting in the way of Peggy's larger story and how she, in turn, made the greater sacrifice to save the planet...and miss out on that dance.
To those who know Marvel cosmic lore better than I do, any ideas on the identity of the creature Red Skull foolishly tried to unleash on Earth? Initially I thought they were going to tie-in with the Hydra origins that Agents of SHIELD explored but this creature is very different from Hive (unless this is some form of it?).
Lastly, even though we knew Chris Evans wasn't returning as Steve, I thought Josh Keaton did a very good job performing scrawny Steve, much like the returning Ross Marquand did once again with Red Skull. Also, it was great to hear Stanley Tucci and Toby Jones reprise their roles, even if they didn't have much to do.
I agree that the story seemed just a little rushed and I, too, question Flynn's presence and rank, but it was otherwise a solid start to things.
As for the tentacle creature, my first thought was Shuma-Gorath, who is also rumored to be a part of the upcoming Doctor Strange sequel.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Shuma-Gorath_(Multiverse)
As for the tentacle creature, my first thought was Shuma-Gorath, who is also rumored to be a part of the upcoming Doctor Strange sequel.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Shuma-Gorath_(Multiverse)
Thanks, I hadn't heard of him before.
And if that rumor is true, then the show is potentially already tying back to the main timeline.
And ties in quite nicely with the rumor being discussed in the Doctor Strange thread.
Oh, yes. I didn't think about that!
One of things I was just thinking about that was branched off from the main timeline. There is no Winter Soldier because Bucky Barnes didn't get brainwashed. Tony Starks parents are probably still alive.
And Tony may have had his moral compass affected by his growing up with "Uncle Steve" as a role model.
Well, this was quite good. The story was kind of rushed, but fun, and I've rarely seen cel-shaded 3D animation look this good. The technology has finally gotten to the point where sometimes it's almost indistinguishable from traditional animation. Indeed, it looked like there were a lot of painted backgrounds, and I was impressed by how much the lighting, color, and character/action animation reminded me of the Fleischer Superman cartoons from the '40s. Whereas one or two of the animated explosions reminded me of Tokyo Movie Shinsha's work in their heyday in the '80s and '90s. They always did the best explosions. I still find it a little off-putting how fluid CGI animation is compared to cel animation (except in shows like The Dragon Prince and Pacific Rim: The Black where they deliberately reduce the frame rate to mimic 2D, usually reducing it too much), and the lines are a bit heavy for my taste, but the character animation was very expressive and subtle, really terrific work.
Josh Keaton was remarkably good as Steve. I didn't pay enough attention at the start of the credits to know whether it was Chris Evans or not, and I became convinced it actually was him. As for Atwell, it was interesting how she played Captain Carter with more fun and playfulness than Agent Carter, as if she were really rejoicing in the freedom her new power gave her. But the performance I enjoyed most was Dominic Cooper's Howard Stark, who was in full Starkian form with a perfect '40s screwball-comedy delivery on top of it.
It kind of seemed to me that Captain Carter was even more superpowered than Captain America ever was. I don't think we ever saw Steve flip a truck over his head, for example. I bet that's really going to upset a certain segment of the audience.
I found the tag scene kind of anticlimactic. It would've been nice to get some answers about what happened to Hydra Stomper Steve in the 70 years since the war. Maybe they're saving that for a sequel next season?
Should the thread title be given a spoiler flag, since we're discussing the episode specifics?
Josh Keaton was remarkably good as Steve. I didn't pay enough attention at the start of the credits to know whether it was Chris Evans or not, and I became convinced it actually was him. As for Atwell, it was interesting how she played Captain Carter with more fun and playfulness than Agent Carter, as if she were really rejoicing in the freedom her new power gave her. But the performance I enjoyed most was Dominic Cooper's Howard Stark, who was in full Starkian form with a perfect '40s screwball-comedy delivery on top of it.
It kind of seemed to me that Captain Carter was even more superpowered than Captain America ever was. I don't think we ever saw Steve flip a truck over his head, for example. I bet that's really going to upset a certain segment of the audience.
I found the tag scene kind of anticlimactic. It would've been nice to get some answers about what happened to Hydra Stomper Steve in the 70 years since the war. Maybe they're saving that for a sequel next season?
Should the thread title be given a spoiler flag, since we're discussing the episode specifics?
That's awesome! I didn't even think to pause the scene and look at it more closely. I hope that's true.
I suspect Christopher is right and we'll see more of that in a future episode, especially in contrast to the interviews where A.C. Bradley noted she and her writers had a ton of ideas and many of them had to be pushed off to season two or later. Also seems likely considering in particular regards to how they're seeing Peggy as the throughline for the series as a whole. It'll be interesting to see how modern history has changed as a result.
I also find it curious that Hawkeye was there with Fury. Seems a bit superfluous considering Fury was on his own (important characters wise) in the original scene, so why include Hawkeye this time? I can't help but wonder if that's a set-up for something later on down the line.
Yeah, I really loved the animation style, although I admit I didn't think about it in those terms.
Both Atwell and Cooper were clearly having a lot of fun with their alternate takes, relishing at the opportunity to put more joy in the performances, contrary to The First Avenger and Agent Carter. That especially stands out for me since I'm in the middle of rewatching Agent Carter now.
Oh, right, I meant to do that and completely forgot. Changed it now.
Similar threads
