What I think is wrong with XI compared to the others.

[Tom Servo]

And what does XI have? No, really, what? The Kelvin sequence is moving, but there's not much message behind it. As for the rest, it's a thin plot with more holes and contrivances than the other films put together, and no meaning. Take out the effects, and what is there?

A friend told me that XI had made Star Trek cool, but if being cool costs Star Trek its soul and makes it into just another dumb action flick, then I'd rather it was viewed as something that only middle aged men living in their mother's basements and speak Klingon like.

Personally, I can't wait until Trek XII comes out and is the exact same mess as XI, causing an uproar from everyone who liked XI. Just like what happened with Transformers this year.

Yep, just like the people who claimed that Trek was going to be a total and miserable failure...

This crew has already proven they can make a great Trek film, and I expect that they will do it again.

 

[lucas1701]

And what does XI have? No, really, what? The Kelvin sequence is moving, but there's not much message behind it. As for the rest, it's a thin plot with more holes and contrivances than the other films put together, and no meaning. Take out the effects, and what is there?

A friend told me that XI had made Star Trek cool, but if being cool costs Star Trek its soul and makes it into just another dumb action flick, then I'd rather it was viewed as something that only middle aged men living in their mother's basements and speak Klingon like.

Personally, I can't wait until Trek XII comes out and is the exact same mess as XI, causing an uproar from everyone who liked XI. Just like what happened with Transformers this year.

Yep, just like the people who claimed that Trek was going to be a total and miserable failure...

This crew has already proven they can make a great Trek film, and I expect that they will do it again.

I agree. rather like the original x-men film, (which was lauded at the time despite being rather lukewarm) it served to introduce some fantastic characters, and promised far more for the next (superior) instalment. it is clear to me that story was less important to JJ Abrams than character. He now has an obligation to deliver on that promise.

 

[Dukhat]

There is so much truth in these two paragraphs. Yes, the Kelvin scene is a cool one, but otherwise, Trek XI is a generic summer blockbuster that's as meaningful as Transforemrs 2 or GI Joe.

You're wrong there. Star Trek was far more meaningful than Transformers 2 and GI Joe, because the latter movies weren't made in order to re-energize a franchise that had become old, stale, and for all intents and purposes, dead. Besides being a "summer blockbuster" (which it was), it also was charged with bringing interest back to Star Trek in general (which it did).

 

[JarodRussell]

There is so much truth in these two paragraphs. Yes, the Kelvin scene is a cool one, but otherwise, Trek XI is a generic summer blockbuster that's as meaningful as Transforemrs 2 or GI Joe.

You're wrong there. Star Trek was far more meaningful than Transformers 2 and GI Joe, because the latter movies weren't made in order to re-energize a franchise that had become old, stale, and for all intents and purposes, dead. Besides being a "summer blockbuster" (which it was), it also was charged with bringing interest back to Star Trek in general (which it did).

Only if you think re-energizing a franchise gives a movie's story a meaning.

 

[The Wormhole]

it also was charged with bringing interest back to Star Trek in general (which it did).

Okay, so people who never watched Trek prior saw this movie. Big flipping deal. Have these people gone and begun watching any other forms of Star Trek? Be it any of the episodes, or any of the other movies? Not to my knowledge.

All this movie did is make people think of something with the Star Trek name as "cool." It did not bring any more interest to pre-Abrams Trek than it already had.

And besides, most Trek episodes are fairly easy to understand without prior knowledge. Especially TOS and TNG. So what is stopping people from doing so?

Anyone who liked this movie is going to be blown away by Arena, or The Doomsday Machine. Or Darmok, or the Redemption two-parter.

 

[Shazam!]

Yep, just like the people who claimed that Trek was going to be a total and miserable failure...

Who did that? I recall great optimism when the new film was announced..

 

[Tom Servo]

Yep, just like the people who claimed that Trek was going to be a total and miserable failure...

Who did that? I recall great optimism when the new film was announced..

Just before it was released there were many members of this forum claiming it would fail at the BO, have a Speed Racer type interest, or become the Batman and Robin of Trek films.

Since it did not do either of those things, and became a critical and financial success, whenever one of those people make a claim about the next film being a failure, either creatively or financially I usually don't listen.

Just saying...

Im glad this is what Trek has become, and I can't wait to reenter this universe again.

 

[DonIago]

You've got to admit, the people who hate this movie have quite the bitter pill to swallow...not only did it dare to introduce an alternate universe with new versions of familiar characters, but then it had the gall to be financially and critically successful.

That being said, it's been months now. I wish people would finish swallowing the pill and move on.

 

[Chrisisall]

Also: Needed? Who ever parsed the idea that we need Star Trek?

I *need* Star Trek.
Other peeps need fiction like the Bible, or the Koran.
Ours is both more fun, AND more applicable to life, IMO.

 

[Admiral Shran]

There's changing things and then there's drastically altering things unnecessarily.

I don't mind change. Heck, Deep Space Nine is my favorite series and it changed the franchise tremendously (for the better, IMO). But when you alter or remove things so basic to the universe (like Vulcan), then I have problems with it.

As for "needed." What I meant was that the hype was.... "if the franchise is going to continue on, then this is what is needed."

 

[DonIago]

Changing things that were basic to the universe was one of the primary goals of the movie.

Expecting Star Trek '09 to play it safe by not making any fundamental changes, in my mind, makes about as much sense as expecting 2012 to be a deep, hard science film. It was never going to happen, and to go on (and on, and on in some cases) about how disappointing it was to you months later is pointless. We -know- you're disappointed.

 

[Char Aznable]

Also, is the planet Vulcan itself really that important to the overall Trek universe? I mean really? It was featured only once in TOS, once in the movies, once in Enterprise in a story arc (but A, no one gives a shit about Enterprise and B, that arc is still canon within NuTrek so its still valid if you want), and in a couple of passes by. Yea, REAL signifigant.

Some people really need to get over their petty butthurt.

 

[DonIago]

Actually, as this movie occurs within an alternate timeline, everything that happened in previous Trek still happened. And to deliberately choose to believe that this movie overwrites all of that, especially given that the existence of Prime Spock seems to establish otherwise, is masochism. Let me repeat - nobody's forcing you to accept that Prime Trek is gone, you're -choosing- to believe that.

 

[6079SmithW]

Also, is the planet Vulcan itself really that important to the overall Trek universe? I mean really? It was featured only once in TOS, once in the movies, once in Enterprise in a story arc (but A, no one gives a shit about Enterprise and B, that arc is still canon within NuTrek so its still valid if you want), and in a couple of passes by. Yea, REAL signifigant.

Some people really need to get over their petty butthurt.

I think the problem some people have is not the loss of the physical planet itself but the loss of so many Vulcans, causing their species (and philosophy) to become endangered. Vulcans and their philosophy (personified by Spock) were a central element to TOS that was carried through to the latter incarnations of trek (Tuvok in voyager and T'Pol in enterprise, various vulcan appearances in TNG and DS9).

 

[Harvey]

With Spock, Sarek, and Spock Prime all still alive and well in Abrams' Trek, I am extremely doubtful that the Vulcan philosophy will cease to be a central element to further installments in the series.

Although, to be fair to Char Aznable, Vulcan was featured in two episodes of Star Trek (and a third in the series' animated form), three of the films (TMP, TSFS, and TVH), five episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation, two episodes of Star Trek: Voyager, and four episodes of Enterprise.

 

[Shazam!]

to go on (and on, and on in some cases) about how disappointing it was to you months later is pointless. We -know- you're disappointed.

And talking about how much you liked it months later is pointless. And talking about how indifferent you were is pointless. TNG ended 15+ years ago. We should stop talking about that too.

 

[Kegg]

Harvey's bang on the money here: We don't need any more Vulcan characters beyond Sarek and the two Spocks as far as Vulcans go, especially for two-hour films that may not need to deal with Vulcans again anyway (though honestly I hope they will.) If they need more Vulcan characters - T'Pring, maybe, for a romantic triangle? - they can just introduce them. That out about there being a large number of Vulcans offworld at the time will be enough to mitigate the damage story wise.

Also, is the planet Vulcan itself really that important to the overall Trek universe?

As far as planets go, there aren't many other planets that are as important to Trek as a whole. Earth, certainly. Bajor got more screentime than any other alien planet but was mostly only relevant to DS9. I guess the only other contender would be Qo'nos. But anyway, yeah, I'd argue it's in the top-tier of planets - particularly so for fan fondness for the Vulcan race and Spock in particular. Most of the Vulcan race have just been annihilated.

Quality of appearance is also more important than quantity. To fans (i.e. to me and anyone who agrees with me?), it's one of the more iconic and beloved locales in the franchise. I happened to like seeing the planet in TMP and TSFS, and I'd consider "Amok Time" as one of the best episodes in the series. ENT's Vulcan arc also had its cool elements.

 

[scnj]

Okay, so people who never watched Trek prior saw this movie. Big flipping deal. Have these people gone and begun watching any other forms of Star Trek? Be it any of the episodes, or any of the other movies? Not to my knowledge.

That's a generalization. I know several people who saw the new movie and decided to check out various other incarnations of Star Trek. Some liked everything, some only latched onto a certain series like DS9 or Voyager and some decided that the pre-Abrams franchise wasn't for them and decided to just stick with the new film.

Frankly, saying that nobody even tried other forms of Star Trek after seeing the new film is ludicrous.

 

[Dukhat]

it also was charged with bringing interest back to Star Trek in general (which it did).

Okay, so people who never watched Trek prior saw this movie. Big flipping deal. Have these people gone and begun watching any other forms of Star Trek? Be it any of the episodes, or any of the other movies? Not to my knowledge.

All this movie did is make people think of something with the Star Trek name as "cool." It did not bring any more interest to pre-Abrams Trek than it already had.

And besides, most Trek episodes are fairly easy to understand without prior knowledge. Especially TOS and TNG. So what is stopping people from doing so?

Anyone who liked this movie is going to be blown away by Arena, or The Doomsday Machine. Or Darmok, or the Redemption two-parter.

And aside from the fact that you're making generalizations, it doesn't really matter whether people who saw Star Trek XI go out and buy a TNG DVD set. That has nothing to do with re-energizing Trek. I don't recall a huge upsurge in sales of TOS BSG merchandise after nuBSG premiered, yet nuBSG is and continues to be incredibly successful in its own right with fans old and new. I don't recall a huge upsurge in sales of old Doctor Who merchandise after nuDoctor Who premiered, yet it's still the same success story.Star Trek XI has proven it can and will do the same.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't recall a huge upsurge in sales of TOS BSG merchandise after nuBSG premiered, yet nuBSG is and continues to be incredibly successful in its own right with fans old and new.

Well, I did my duty anyway and got the original BSG DVD set after I began watching NuBSG.