What I think is wrong with XI compared to the others.

[Kegg]

And the original BSG DVD set was released around the same time nuBSG started, wasn't it? Prior to that only the pilot/movie was available on DVD. Coincidence?

They eventually plugged 1980, for chrissakes. And I think it would be fair to say that some people did go back to watch the original after seeing the new show, though they would tend to be geeks and so on.

Star Trek has the benefit of a sort of geek reputation and credibility that the original BSG did not have, though - while it too is routinely dismissed as a campy 60s show, there is a lot more geek respect for it. I would not be surprised if non-Trekkie nerds who liked the movie went on to give TOS a go, and I've certainly seen more than a few examples of this online.

Not a massive exodus, naturally, but a bit of a trickle down effect.

 

[startrekwatcher]

It seems like Hollywood has run out of ideas and therefore loves trotting out something that was once popular and then putting their touch on it which usually ends up turning it into a pale imitation of what it originally was.

This film is okay but once you stop and think about it that is where it falls apart and any attempt to watch it later just makes it near impossible to do. The film had a thin uninteresting villian, a poorly sketched visit to the 24th century and what happened which required supplemental material to clarify it, a lack of emotional resonance where there should have been i.e. Amanda's death or the destruction of Vulcan. I had more of a visceral reaction when I heard Betazed had been invaded by the Dominion on DS9 than I did here. They were just plot points being marked off for the sake of having done them for the spectacle.

I also thought the Spock/Uhura stuff was a waste of time. The cast was fine but they didn't have a lot to work with.

Frankly I would have been happier if Paramount had just left Trek alone after ENT ended. Sometimes it is just better not to go back and try to resurrect something despite how much we might desire to see it return because it inevitably leaves us disappointed.

 

[Dukhat]

[ I don't recall a huge upsurge in sales of TOS BSG merchandise after nuBSG premiered, yet nuBSG is and continues to be incredibly successful in its own right with fans old and new.

Well, I did my duty anyway and got the original BSG DVD set after I began watching NuBSG.

Good for you. I like you again.

 

[Tom Servo]

It seems like Hollywood has run out of ideas and therefore loves trotting out something that was once popular and then putting their touch on it which usually ends up turning it into a pale imitation of what it originally was.

This film is okay but once you stop and think about it that is where it falls apart and any attempt to watch it later just makes it near impossible to do. The film had a thin uninteresting villian, a poorly sketched visit to the 24th century and what happened which required supplemental material to clarify it, a lack of emotional resonance where there should have been i.e. Amanda's death or the destruction of Vulcan. I had more of a visceral reaction when I heard Betazed had been invaded by the Dominion on DS9 than I did here. They were just plot points being marked off for the sake of having done them for the spectacle.

I also thought the Spock/Uhura stuff was a waste of time. The cast was fine but they didn't have a lot to work with.

Frankly I would have been happier if Paramount had just left Trek alone after ENT ended. Sometimes it is just better not to go back and try to resurrect something despite how much we might desire to see it return because it inevitably leaves us disappointed.

It might have left YOU disappointed. It left me with a great sense of hope for the future of this franchise, and who is overseeing it.

 

[Kegg]

It seems like Hollywood has run out of ideas

This would be incredibly timely say, in the late 1920s, with the spate of remakes and derivative films that were being churned out.

Now it sounds sort of old hat.

i.e. Amanda's death or the destruction of Vulcan. I had more of a visceral reaction when I heard Betazed had been invaded by the Dominion on DS9 than I did here.

Interesting comparison. Honestly, I thought DS9 took the 'safe' risky route. Betazed is probably the least important planet you can think of that'd still have any resonance for Trek fans at the time - and unlike Vulcan, it didn't get blown up, just invaded. So it was reclaimable. We never revisited Betazed anyway or even got a glimmer of a reaction from Marina Sirtis, so it's a moot point.

 

[startrekwatcher]

The writers seemed to think that any connection we had to Vulcan or Amanda from TOS would somehow be transferred over to their new counterparts but they were wrong.

My point in bringing up Betazed was to emphasize the fact that Trek writers had successfully generated more of a genuine panged reaction over the invasion of Troi's home than the destruction of Vulcan in this film. It was quite a flat reaction on my end. To me it was because it felt like it was done for pure spectacle and because the writers thought it would be kewl rather than as a shocking development.

 

[Kegg]

The writers seemed to think that any connection we had to Vulcan or Amanda from TOS would somehow be transferred over to their new counterparts but they were wrong.

For oldschool Trekkies that is definitely true (and successful in my case, my jaw more or less hit the floor in shock when they killed Amanda Grayson). But for film audiences generally, they're important simply as Spock's home planet and Spock's mom, not whatever role they had played in the series.

My point in bringing up Betazed was to emphasize the fact that Trek writers had successfully generated more of a genuine panged reaction over the invasion of Troi's home than the destruction of Vulcan in this film.

I know, and that's interesting to me because I felt the precise opposite. Troi's home planet is about the least impactful place they could invade that still made an impact - it was all too calculated to me. That Troi isn't near DS9 at all and, due to the nature of the movie series, can never respond to it, is also pertinent. (It's not something that bothers her in her VOY cameos either.)

You couldn't think of a more irrelevant planet that still sounded big, really, straddling that careful line. And since unlike Vulcan it's not destroyed, just invaded, it's definitely a more conservative take - DS9 took a not exactly popular planet from a major character from another series and had it merely invaded, Abrams took an iconic planet from a major character in his movie and blew it the hell up. Game, set and match to the new kid in my book.

To me it was because it felt like it was done for pure spectacle and because the writers thought it would be kewl rather than as a shocking development.

It's true that the destruction carries surprisingly little gravitas in the film. Six billion people dead and we move on and do our jobs, though Spock is understandably cut up about it. In that respect I think it's very consciously similar to the destruction of Alderaan, which admittedly didn't even keep Leia in down spirits for more than a scene.

 

[DonIago]

To be fair, there wasn't exactly time to dwell on Vulcan's destruction given that Nero already had Earth picked out for his next target. Even so, we did get a montage which I'd say was one of the best sequences of the film.

 

[6079SmithW]

To me at least it seemed to be a shocking development. Nero goes from turning a starship into swiss cheese to blowing up a planet with billions of inhabitants. This guy is nuts! He thinks that creating a genocide will prevent one. It also heightens Spock's culture conflict as he is now, as he puts it, a member of an endangered species. It also brings his conflicted emotions much closer to the surface, as we saw.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I had more of a visceral reaction when I heard Betazed had been invaded by the Dominion on DS9 than I did here. They were just plot points being marked off for the sake of having done them for the spectacle.

My thoughts exactly. Betazed may not have been a major planet, like Vulcan. However, it was a planet that viewers had come to identify with. It was under threat, but hope remained that it would be saved. The invasion was able to provoke a sense of anxiety and anticipation in me.

Vulcan, on the other hand, was just destroyed for the sake of spectacle. There is no hope that it can be saved. If the point was to simply shock us with this new development, way not destroy the single most important planet in Star Trek, Earth?

 

[DonIago]

Because Nero blamed Spock for not saving Romulus, not a human?

In any case, I'm reasonably sure that a good number of people going to see the movie assumed that the Enterprise -would- save Vulcan. Frankly, to me that would have been a cop-out and an indication that the new PTB weren't -really- willing to mess with the status quo.

I don't see how the Betazed invasion can feel like much more than a plot point...we never see it, and in context it feels like it was just a catalyst for the events of that particular episode. Heck, it's never even referenced afterward.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

The latest Trek was a generic summer blockbuster. There's a reason why it missed its original release date, and that had little to do with needing more time for postproduction and more to do with aiming it at the right audience. People who choose to switch their brains off during movies. Nothing wrong with that off course. There are a lot of movies I switch my brain off at, and all of them are released in summer. I just didn't expect it of Trek.

 

[Char Aznable]

The latest Trek was a generic summer blockbuster. There's a reason why it missed its original release date, and that had little to do with needing more time for postproduction and more to do with aiming it at the right audience. People who choose to switch their brains off during movies. Nothing wrong with that off course. There are a lot of movies I switch my brain off at, and all of them are released in summer. I just didn't expect it of Trek.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

The latest Trek was a generic summer blockbuster. There's a reason why it missed its original release date, and that had little to do with needing more time for postproduction and more to do with aiming it at the right audience. People who choose to switch their brains off during movies. Nothing wrong with that off course. There are a lot of movies I switch my brain off at, and all of them are released in summer. I just didn't expect it of Trek.

Ah, a witty rejoinder that gets me straight in the kisser. Touche. Touche indeed good sir. Or lady.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I don't see how the Betazed invasion can feel like much more than a plot point...we never see it, and in context it feels like it was just a catalyst for the events of that particular episode. Heck, it's never even referenced afterward.

The point is the STXI writers failed during the course of their film to create a connection in this viewer to this incarnation of Amanda and this incarnation of Vulcan. They foolishly thought that the fondness one had from the TOS versions would simply carry over and create the necessary resonance without them having to do any heavy lifting--they were wrong. As anyone who has seen any other remake knows just because you have the same characters or same basic story it doesn't automatically mean you'll like the same characters or have the same reaction to them as the originals. If that were the case then recasting characters wouldn't be such an issue. I have no investment in these events because for me this film was a clean slate and in my opinion it was up to the writers in this film to make me care and they didn't. They were too caught up in action pieces and failed to imbue in this film any sort of emotion and as a result all the visceral stuff that takes place like Amanda's death or Vulcan's destruction feels hollow and just one of a thousand plot points in the film.

So they destroyed Vulcan-big deal? To me it was just some generic planet. For all intents and purpose, this was a Vulcan from a parallel reality.

 

[DonIago]

OTOH, given the brouhaha that has erupted over the destruction of Vulcan, it seems many people were invested in it.

I know it got a reaction out of me...and everyone I've talked to about it. Maybe we need a poll.

Even if the reaction is just "Holy crap, they destroyed Vulcan!" I'd call that the filmmakers getting what they were looking for.

 

[USS KG5]

Giving the bg indians stuff to do does not translate to development in my book; geez, I think what they did with Scotty was almost as bad as how they messed up the principal characters. It's not STAR TREK at all; it is maybe a primer on how to pimp out a show with values to a core audience that has precious few, but is that a good thing? It just does the SWEET LIBERTY thing of defying authority and blowing stuff up and gratuitously popping bits o' sex in to satisfy the masses, a decade-later ARMAGEDDON without that pic's really good visual effectss and occasional emotional connects.

I think if you replace "It's not Star Trek" with "It's not what I want Star Trek to be" you have the makings of an opinion there, I disagree however.

 

[Valin]

Honestly, I thought DS9 took the 'safe' risky route. Betazed is probably the least important planet you can think of that'd still have any resonance for Trek fans at the time - and unlike Vulcan, it didn't get blown up, just invaded. So it was reclaimable. We never revisited Betazed anyway or even got a glimmer of a reaction from Marina Sirtis, so it's a moot point.

I agree. For the writers of DS9 to have gotten the same emotional impact as the destruction of Vulcan and the death of Spock's mother, they could have taken a 'dangerous" risky route by having New Orleans destroyed by the Dominion and Benjamin's father killed.

 

[JarodRussell]

Honestly, I thought DS9 took the 'safe' risky route. Betazed is probably the least important planet you can think of that'd still have any resonance for Trek fans at the time - and unlike Vulcan, it didn't get blown up, just invaded. So it was reclaimable. We never revisited Betazed anyway or even got a glimmer of a reaction from Marina Sirtis, so it's a moot point.

I agree. For the writers of DS9 to have gotten the same emotional impact as the destruction of Vulcan and the death of Spock's mother, they could have taken a 'dangerous" risky route by having New Orleans destroyed by the Dominion and Benjamin's father killed.

DS9 also had the attack on the headqarters, and Golden Gate bridge in ashes. That was interesting.

 

[DonIago]

That did make more of an impression, though I wish we'd gotten a bit more information about it (if memory serves, all we got beyond discussion was a pretty small image on one of Sisko's viewscreens).