Except that when you make abstraction of the arrogance and the condescension you realize that there's not much left.
Were Tuvok and Neelix aware Janeway killed Tuvix?
- Thread starter damfino
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Except that when you make abstraction of the arrogance and the condescension you realize that there's not much left.
M
marlboro
Guest
Just once I'd like to click on a thread here and have it be about the topic in the title.
I hope so. I've been reviewing forum threads and on several of your posts I could probably issue infractions for trolling as the board rules define it. I'm opting not to presently in light of the infraction you've already received today in another forum.
Everyone else remember to keep the personal digs out. Debate the post not the poster as we say. If anyone thinks a post needs closer scrutiny hit the report post button and we'll take a closer look.Thanks.
Back to your regularly scheduled Tuvix post...
Did you notice how Janeway regarded Tuvix the whole time? Even though he was accepted by the rest of the crew as one of them (I think he lived for three of four weeks) and even appreciated. Janeway always looked at him like she would at a piece of garbage. When she was told that the thing could be reversed she never stopped for one second to think that it could hurt him. I think it's a terrible trait they (the writers) gave her. Plus I never heard that there was a time limit on the procedure and since Tuvix did an excellent job I don't see the rush to kill him. She could have asked her crew to see if there was a way to save all of them (By maybe making a transporter duplicate at the same time, mixing the Riker thing with it)
It would have been nice to be told that it was impossible instead of this rushed execution.
It would have been nice to be told that it was impossible instead of this rushed execution.
Something I haven't considered before: Janeway's background as a science officer seems somewhat inconsistent with her conduct in this episode. By which I mean, of anyone on the ship, I would think the scientist types would be the most likely to embrace Tuvix as a unique development worthy of exploration and the right to self-determination.
Put another way, how do we think Spock, Data (since TNG didn't exactly have a science officer), Jadzia, or the other science officers we've seen may have reacted to Tuvix?
Put another way, how do we think Spock, Data (since TNG didn't exactly have a science officer), Jadzia, or the other science officers we've seen may have reacted to Tuvix?
M
marlboro
Guest
Very interesting question.
I think Spock would use cold logic and kill Tuvix. Bones would raise all kinds of Hell.
I think Data would consider Tuvix a unique life form much like himself and would spare him.
Jadzia I'm not so sure about. I don't think she'd kill him, but I can't say why. Ultimately, I think she wouldn't do it because she just isn't that type of person. Well except for the Joran part of her. I also think she would find Tuvix's unique origin too fascinating and his personality too likable to kill.
As a crossbreed himself Spock would most logically see a kinship between Tuvix and himself.
M
marlboro
Guest
Probably. But "needs of the many" and all that.
He was also pretty eager to drop the hammer on Gary Mitchell to save the ship, too.
He was also pretty eager to drop the hammer on Gary Mitchell to save the ship, too.
Well, Tuvix wasn't trying to blow the ship up, like Gary Mitchell would have eventually done if he had gotten his way.
And that would be "projecting." While she seems a little disturbed the very first time she meets him, she is certainly not that way throughout the episode. She also straight up tells us her feelings in a Captain's log:
Janeway said:
When they discover the solution, and Tuvix refuses it becomes a weight on everyone, including Janeway. And she doesn't know what to do. It's Kes, who represents the effect not separating him would have on the crew, that pushes Janeway into one direction over another. Tuvix knows that Kes can influence the captain and tries to use her, but his plan backfires, because it's actually Kes who has been bothered by/angry with him all along.
At the end, Janeway is on the verge of crying.
It's amazing some of the things that people project onto Janeway that just aren't there.
Yes, I tend to get a little frustrated. I'm sorry.
"Tuvix" was the result of an accident. The accident occurred, apparently, at a time when such accidents can occur. One can not look at this as an early 21st century problem, with early 21st century eyes. An accident combined two entities with a third. There HAS to be, in this time, an implied duty to the victims of the accident. An action separated them. "I am Tuvok... but I'm also Neelix". There never was anthing named Tuvix, nothing to "kill" only two entities waiting to be separated.
I'm still waiting for ONE person to have an intelligent debate with me, looking at the situation "out of the box".
If she left Tuvix as is, they'd be complaining about her lack of duty to Neelix and Tuvok.
People, especially Americans, hate strong, decisive women. No one complains about the combining of two Kirks into one, no one complains about combining two B'Elanas into one. Even though those actions destroyed entities who had the "right" to live OR die as individuals. No one complains about Picard's rescue from the borg, everyone complains about Janeway's decision to rescue Seven.
It is, was, and always will be about a double standard. Tuvix was "murdered" but the two Kirks and the two B'Elanas weren't. Picard was "rescued" but Seven was taken from the Borg against her will.
I call BS, big time.
Heh, you still see Tuvix as Neelix and Tuvok's child huh?
I believe the clinical term is "binary clone" and that is a real thing. Look it up.
I think you just answered your own question as to why nobody is interested in engaging with you. Would you want to engage with someone who addressed you in this manner?
Yes, as a matter f fact I would.
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