Were Tuvok and Neelix aware Janeway killed Tuvix?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by damfino, May 29, 2019.

  1. damfino

    damfino Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Were Tuvok and Neelix aware Janeway killed Tuvix? I'd like to have seen a followup episode that further elaborated on wheter Tuvix and know what Janeway did, or if they have any memories of it. Do you think Tuvok and Neelix would have agreed with her decision? I don't think Tuvok would, starfleet legality and all.
     
  2. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Location:
    North America
    From the look on Tuvok's face in sick bay, I would say, "yes".
     
    Lance likes this.
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Riddles.

    Tuvok gets brain wiped.

    Later Neelix convinces the new personality inside new Tuvok to kill himself, so that OG Tuvok can make a come back.
     
  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Well, at the end of the episode Janeway says: it's good to have you back, mr. Tuvok, so even if he drew a complete blank, he'd have to wonder why she just said that, after all he was only at the surface of that planet for an hour or so :)
     
    Lance likes this.
  5. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Prax
    I think just as Tuvix had all the memories of Neelix & Tuvok, Neelix & Tuvok had all the memories of Tuvix.

    There's a later episode where the incident is mentioned, but I don't remember if Samantha is the one who referenced it, or Neelix himself(in a conversation between them).
     
    Lance likes this.
  6. Santa Quark

    Santa Quark Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Location:
    JirinPanthosa
    This is one example of Voyager writers handwaving what should have been emotional consequences of a previous episode. Tuvok may have found a way to accept the logic of her decision, but Neelix would have probably had some survivor's guilt at least.
     
  7. damfino

    damfino Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Vulcan philosophy would agree with Janeway 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'. But as a starfleet officer, first and foremost, Tuvok would have a hard time accepting Janeway's decision.
     
    DonIago and Lance like this.
  8. Marsbars

    Marsbars Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2019
    Who cares. Tuvok was an arrogant narcissistic jerk and Neelix was a histrionic annoying scavenger. Getting rid of both of them would have been a godsend.
     
    Lance likes this.
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    King Daniel Beyond
    I was just thinking it had been awhile since we had a Tuvix thread.
     
    SolarisOne, Lance and Kor like this.
  10. 1.21 Gigawatts

    1.21 Gigawatts Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    Location:
    NewHeavensNewEarth
    It's kind of a biased question to begin with. If she hadn't done anything, she would've "killed" the individuals Neelix and Tuvok, who'd been combined in a way that neither of them ever gave consent to to begin with. They would be thankful for having their individual lives back. For Tuvok, in particular, that meant he could return to his family. A bizarre episode.
     
    Ríu ríu chíu likes this.
  11. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Prax
    Did Sisko kill Jerad Dax to save Jadzia?
     
  12. damfino

    damfino Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    She wasn't willing to kill a vidiian to save Neelix in a previous episode
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Memory Alpha. Too much Informaiton.

    Wait?

    That Happened before Naomi was Born!

    Either she heard other people tell the story, or Neelix and Tuvix used to tell story to Sam's belly... AND NAOMI REMEMBERED THE DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY AND CREEPINESS!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
    Lance and King Daniel Beyond like this.
  14. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    It's one of the more interesting questions, because there really was no easy answer.

    Usually, Janeway made the wrong decision and I found her to be incompetent, but here, I'm not so sure she did the wrong thing.

    I don't even think it was a matter of "needs of the many" either. I think as tough as a decision it is, Janeway had to figure out a) what Tuvok and Neelix would want, since they had no ability to give their side, and b) balance that with Tuvix's needs.

    This was a rare, thought provoking episode of Voyager, which still has no slam dunk answer, not unlike Measure of a Man.

    If I were the judge, it would take a lot of thought, but I think I would side with Tuvok and Neelix. They weren't dead. The ability to bring them back proves that. They were here first. It really comes down to that.
     
    Lance likes this.
  15. USS Excelsior

    USS Excelsior Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Location:
    Alpha Quadrant
    Too bad they couldn’t have created a transporter duplicate of Tuvix and just sacrifice one of them.
     
    Lance and suarezguy like this.
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    A second Tuvix would have unfairly trapped a second Neelix, and Tuvok, inside him, and also the original Tuvix would have still been murdered.
     
    Lance likes this.
  17. Doctor Bombay

    Doctor Bombay Serial Cat Lover Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
  18. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    What if, having restored Tuvok and Neelix, one or both of them expressed that they actually preferred being Tuvix? Sure they were merged without consent, but what if, after the fact, they express consent? What then, Kathryn? What then? :lol:

    Janeway's "it's good to have you back" moment only shows that she made the decision for her own selfish reasons, ie that she missed Neelix's cooking (because, f*** Tuvok :D)
     
  19. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Prax
    Or more likely, Neelix has told her the story, since he's like her godfather/surrogate father and babysitter, and tells her bedtime stories every night.
     
  20. jmidnight_99

    jmidnight_99 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2015
    Eh, this is moot. Did "Tuvix" care that he "killed" Tuvok and Neelix? There was no Tuvix. He was the result of a transporter accident, nothing more. The accident was corrected. It's a fun episode, but did the evil James Kirk and the good James Kirk have the "right" to exist separately because of an accident? No, the only person who had any "rights" was the whole James Kirk.
     
    Ríu ríu chíu likes this.