Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Photon, Mar 26, 2021.
Still got misty-eyed just like in 2011, at the end. "Jake my sweet boy" still tears me up
It tears me up whenever i watch it
How many other shows make me tear up, even after I've watched them a dozen times? Not many!
Casablanca at the "La Marseilles" scene.
I rewatched it today. Tony Todd carries the entire thing with such a performance...
I reacted far more to the story this time than I had in previous viewings, but probably not for the same reasons as most. For one thing, it flatly contradicts something Dr Pulaski mentioned about the 24th century in season 2... which I didn't entirely mind... But anyway, the individual set pieces that did and still do work (quite a few exist) are still countered by the large and warped counterbalance involving Jake's weird belief that, by killing himself only when daddy appears and hope that daddy doesn't vanish as quickly as on previous returns, Ben will reappear just before the treknobabble-laden zappy-zap took place and he'll simply duck this time. At least it's at the tail end of the episode, but as far as reset buttons go, that one feels like the ultimate cheat. Never mind that the stranger who knocked on the door and listened to this oddball story believes it carte blanche since, usually, most people saying they're going to kill themselves are asking for help because of perceived insurmountable issues.
So when I say it's still 9/10, that's saying something. But that ending really saps the story of the power it otherwise truly had.
I can't handle this ep after having had children. Especially since I picked up the endearment, "my sweet boy," from this episode and bestowed it on my own boy.
Ironically, alternative timeline Jake--academic doctorate in physics, research into wormholes and subspace--would be one of the most accomplished main characters in the franchise, comparable to Jurati and alternative timeline Data.
New to the forum. Just had to talk about this episode as I watched for the 1st time last night.
After cycling through all TNG seasons 3 times non stop for 18 months I started watching DS9 from the end of season 1 until now, and will continue. I love it.
I mildly remembered reading that this episode was highly regarded, but had no big expectations. It was beautiful, but beguiling.
My take away was this: it never actually happened. It was self-averted. There was no random flouncy blond girl visiting an elder Jake. And that disappointed me. I thought for certain she would turn out to be an entity with a motive, or at least present a large spacy plot device to tie in the existence of an alternate timeline. But she walked out the door like a breeze leaving nothing but the excuse for Jake (who never happened) to tell a story (that never happened).
Cisco never died, or disappeared. This would have made news. It seems the whole story took place in a flash, and what we witnessed was a device of devilry that was utterly averted, but it’s one that we were allowed to see unfold only AS IF it had occurred.
It’s odd. Now that I write this, I see it a bit more clearly. Perhaps. But it was not self-evident, in the way that say Picard lived 40 years on a planet in 18 minutes time with the assistance of a probe beaming a lost civilization’s story to be remembered.
Or the way that Billy Pilgrim bounced around through life at the direction of his alien benefactors in Slaughterhouse Five.
In the end, the episode’s namesake, The Visitor, this story-loving girl, didn’t make anything happen. She never even existed.
I just found it leaving a bit on the table. Maybe when I see it again I’ll pick something up that I missed. It was a lovely visual piece, just not a perfect story.
Thanks for indulging me my thoughts.
Ben remembers what happened, which is why I don't consider this entirely a reset button episode.
I remember the episode happening, which makes it at least as salient as all other fiction.
But to be less flippant, the fact that there may not be a causal link between events in the series that run through The Visitor misses the point. Even if Sisko did not remember the events of the episode,the strength of the episode comes from using a tangent in order to explore the relationship between the characters. How do traumatic events in youth affect one's ability to be happy throughout one's life? I would argue that save for the specifics of the relationship between Ben and Jake, the story could have been put into a different setting, or even exist on its own, and be as powerful.
Brilliant, brilliant episode. I hope everyone involved is still proud of what they created because, for me, it seems to get better the older I get.
great episode, in my top 10 ds9 episode for sure.
As for the timeline thing, I believe once sisko is saved, it has to all reset.
It doesn't all reset though. Ben remembers what he experienced.
yes or course, I was thinking more about Jakes life, and how since he was not searching for his dad that path was not taken.
Ah, okay. I guess this does beg the question of whether there's a timeline where Ben doesn't get zapped out of phase at all, and whether his not gaining that level of insight into the Jake-that-could-be leads to any significant variances.
I always think back to this
Does Sisko need to gain any insights in order for Jake's life to be affected? Loosing his father at seventeen would be a second instance of Adverse Childhood Experience, after having lost his mother. He would be more prone to depression and poor executive control. Just the almost four years between The Visitor and What You Leave Behind would have meant that Jake was better able to withstand another loss.
As an example, it is possible that Sisko's experiences in the episode led him to be more encouraging of Jake's literary aspirations than he might have been otherwise. Perhaps that led to Jake writing a book he wouldn't have written otherwise, and perhaps a reader of that book was inspired to do something they wouldn't have done otherwise, etc...
Or the timeline that follows could be pretty similar to what would have happened if Sisko hadn't been zapped at all. We don't have a way to know.
To this day, this is the only episode of any TV show that has made me cry.
I watched it as I just lost a dear friend .... this episode tore me apart
They did a top ten list of Trek episodes.
Voyager and Enterprise weren't on it.
TOS and TNG had nine episodes between them.
DS9 had one. This one.
It was #1.
It deserved it.
This episode highlights one of my big issues with the series finale. That Ben never said goodbye to Jake.
There is no way after this, that Ben doesn’t include Jake in his “I will be back” moment with Cassidy.
Separate names with a comma.