Watched The Visitor for the first time in 10 years

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Photon, Mar 26, 2021.

  1. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Possibly, but remember that history unfolded differently in Jake's timeline. The Dominion War didn't occur, the Klingons took over DS9, and the Bajorans and Cardassians became allies. With changes of that magnitude, all too easy for events to prevent one birth. Of course, timelines in Star Trek are much less fragile than they would be IRL.
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Don't forget that the Dominion took over the Klingons.
     
  3. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Given that at the end of the episode Ben Sisko effectively time travels into the past, it's entirely possible that we witnessed two timelines here, and the girl is still alive.
     
  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Whether it 'actually happened' or not is not that relevant in how I rate an episode (unless of course it's a really flimsy construction), A lot of great episodes with time travel 'never happened' at the end, such as Year of Hell or Yesterday's Enterprise (the last one at least to the extent that Our Heroes remember none of it), or All Good Things.

    It's a very good episode with a lot of emotional impact, but that alone isn't enough for me propel it into the highest regions, and the rest of the story (hence disregarding the emotional impact) isn't that exceptional. To me 'one of the greatest Trek episodes ever made' is slightly overrating the ep, even though I'd still say it's in 'very high quality' territory.

    And frankly, her role isn't that important. She's only the excuse for Old Jake to tell his story, but it's not as if she inspired him to make his self-sacrifice or anything like that- he had long taken his decision to do so.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe he should have just been narrating a personal log. ;)
     
  6. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    No. Because when something is already pretty much perfect, you don't mess with it.
     
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  7. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    "To my father -- who's coming home."
     
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  8. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    There's worse than episodes that never happened there's the Voyager it happened but nobody remembers episodes, the ironically named "Unforgettable" and the aptly named "Course Oblivion"... Neither makes any sense...
     
  9. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    I've forgotten "Unforgettable".

    (sorry, I'll see myself out)
     
  10. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Do you remember "Remember"?

    *Oddish follows kkt*
     
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  11. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    None of it happened. It's fiction.

    (Sorry, not leaving.)
     
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  12. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    *For speaking sacrilege, Bad Thoughts is violently seized by a mob of angry Trekkies, tarred, feathered, and defenestrated.*

    (Should've left.)
     
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  13. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    (As he is being expelled, Bad Thoughts says, in Shatner voice: ) Get a life!
     
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  14. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    You look really cute with those feathers stuck all over you. :nyah:
     
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  15. dupersuper

    dupersuper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Here here!

    Something else along these lines I hate: the term "filler episode".
     
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  16. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    Course Oblivion works because nobody remembers. It's like a dark Twilight Zone episode. First you find you aren't the real you just before you are about to get home. Then you and all the people you know and love start to die. Then to top it off your attempt to let anyone even know you once a existed fails. Complete with the real versions of you just missing finding out about you before all traces of your existence is limited to some file of a dust cloud and some debris found in space.
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^It worked for some but not for others. There's an argument to be made that the ending is terribly cynical and renders the events of the episode largely pointless, and not even in the same way a "reset button" is arguably pointless in that we're at least seeing "our" characters versus copies. It may be for the best that the episode at least makes it clear early on that to some degree these aren't our characters, though it takes some time before we learn just how much they aren't our characters.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Course: Oblivion puts the Voyager cast in a situation that it's impossible to put them in for real, just to see how they handle it. It could have been undone by a temporal anomaly or parallelity shift or a snap of Q's fingers, but it would have the dark ending pack far less gravitas. C:O is Star Trek for nihilists.
     
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  19. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    If anything "Couse Oblivion" shows that Janeway is insane. How else to describe her behavior after she's learned that she wasn't the original Captain? Not listening to anybody and stubbornly maintaining a course of action that absolutely everybody else tells her that will doom her crew. It's good for her that the logs had been destroyed because it could have convinced the real crew that they should choose another Captain, quickly. It would definitely have convinced me.
    Who wants an "I don't care if you're all dying, I'll get you home" Captain? Only someone who's as insane as she.
     
  20. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Insane or not, but it's fairly close to the character of the real Janeway (at least as we see her in a number of episodes). Headstrong, not always listening to advice because She Knows Better and with an obsession to get her crew home, and only settling for less if there really, really, really is no way to accomplish that original goal.