In Space Seed a woman betrays everything she believes in for a hot guy she just met.
Was TNG less progressive than TOS?
- Thread starter Orphalesion
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Machismo is a powerful force.
Plus McGivers seems bored with her existance (hardly excited at the prospect of a landing party assignment), everything she believes in might be laying on too thick.
McGivers could have been jumping at a opportunity to escape her (then) current life.
Plus McGivers seems bored with her existance (hardly excited at the prospect of a landing party assignment), everything she believes in might be laying on too thick.
McGivers could have been jumping at a opportunity to escape her (then) current life.
I know, since as theatre companies go this wasn't a really huge one, nor was the one I worked in at the local college. I can only go by my own experience, since I've worked in theatre but not movies or TV. The producers here tend to cast people who can sing, dance, act, and do justice to the roles and they worry about other issues later. Of course if they can get people of the appropriate ethnicity who are good at singing, dancing, and acting, they'll cast them. Otherwise... out comes the makeup, hair dye, wigs, whatever works. The show must go on.
The audiences didn't seem to mind; the last production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat I worked on had a blond guy playing Joseph, and there was no attempt to make him look Middle Eastern (the first production of that play I saw had an actor with dark brown hair). The singing and acting and dancing and overall charisma is what the audiences responded to, and the general assessment I overheard from the audience is that our production was better than Donny Osmond's.
My initial point was just that while Hollywood doesn't have an excuse, smaller productions do, or they could never do some of the best-known plays and musicals. That would deprive a great many people of the enjoyment of live drama. I know you've said it's different with Hollywood vs smaller theatre companies, but I have encountered people who insisted that yes, we really should have tried to get a Thai actor to play the King of Siam.
And for what it's worth, the nuTrek casting director for the second movie should have hired Naveen Andrews to play Khan, if they were really insistent that they wanted Khan. That would have made the movie at least somewhat palatable (nothing could save the crappy writing and lousy acting of the regular cast).
The examples that annoy me the most are Marla McGivers and Carolyn Palamas. I've studied ancient history and majored in anthropology, and to see those two airheads touted as being worthy of being considered experts and serving on the flagship of the fleet is really insulting to these professions.
Palamas simpering, "What am I doing here, Doctor?" when they're going to meet Apollo... well, DUH... presumably she's supposed to know something about Apollo?
One of the early drafts of that script - the one James Blish used when he wrote his prose versions of the episodes - had McCoy informing Kirk that Palamas was pregnant and grumbling about needing a maternity ward for a baby god.
There is one redeeming thing about Angel One... Ramsay is cute.
The TOS Enterprise wasn't "the flagship of the fleet."
Commodore Wesley aboard the USS Lexington (TUC) was probably the commander of a adhoc squadrant. That's the highest we heard of.
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I tried to rewatch TOS recently. I managed to watch a lot of the episodes. But for the most part when I saw it the first time when I was about 9-10 years old (re-runs!)
I thought it was condescending to women.
Even at that age I could see it. That's just sad.
As an adult, I can only see it as being even more grossly condescending than I picked up on as a child.
I don't watch it any more. I tried but just can't.
I thought it was condescending to women.
Even at that age I could see it. That's just sad.
As an adult, I can only see it as being even more grossly condescending than I picked up on as a child.
I don't watch it any more. I tried but just can't.
I would like a link that definitively states which TOS ship was. Commodore Wesley's command situation is, by your own words, "probably."
There have been numerous references to the Enterprise's status in diplomatic situations (ie. in "Amok Time"). I don't remember Commodore Wesley being mentioned in "Amok Time".
TNG was far behind the curve.
TOS was on the curve.
Flag ship usually refers to having a flag officer on board, at least in a military context. There were none onboard the Enterprise in TOS.
The Enterprise is just one of three starships being sent to Altair mostly there to send a message. Not really seeing anything that says the Enterprise is the "flag ship" just one of three and by Kirk's estimation expendable. There's probably a Federation Ambassador there to do the diplomatic "heavy lifting". Be funny if Sarek was the ambassador on site, but IIRC he would have been retired at that time.Amok Time said:
Quite often the Enterprise is just the ride for a Federation official handling the diplomacy.
So it's just pretentiousness that Picard's ship is sometimes described as the "flagship"?
I am using this term in the sense that it's matter of status, real or perceived.
I am using this term in the sense that it's matter of status, real or perceived.
There was nothing in Amok Time that said that the Enterprise officers were going to be involved in any diplomatic activities, the ship was just going to sit there and look pretty.
My reference to Commodore Wesley was from episode The Ultimate Computer, he commanded the four starship attack force in the war games.
Not the flagship of the fleet, but rather of the federation. I take that to mean it isn't a upper level command ship, it's intended as the federation's show piece.
And then betrays him to do the right thing, and then has Kirk in the end decide to both be lenient with her and Khan and cover up everything ...
So you're just being nitpicky. If it's the flagship (iow, the high-status showpiece, which is what I was going for), then I don't care if it's the fleet, the Federation, or the Starship Captains' Knitting Club.
I am aware of which episode Robert Wesley was in, thankyouverymuch. I don't remember the episode saying he was always in charge of those four ships. This was a one-time situation.
The 1701 probably wasn't a showpiece. It was about twenty years old and one of twelve similar ships. The D on the other hand was a brand new ship, fresh out of the box with all the latest bells and whistles. Very much a showpiece and the "flagship" of the Federation.
You're comparing ships that were a century apart in time. The 1701 was of its own time, not TNG's time. Are you seriously suggesting that there were no refits between Robert April's first mission and Kirk's last mission?
And if the 1701-D had "all the latest bells and whistles" - including the holodeck, which seems to be a goshwowbrandnewthing that impresses the hell out of Riker... explain Janeway's statement that she loved playing Flotter on the holodeck when she was Naomi's age. That means the holodeck and Flotter program was around long before "Encounter at Farpoint" - decades longer.
There was no coverup. He placed the events in his official logs. Besides, how do you coverup a missing crewman?
Compare an Atari 2600 to a PlayStation 4. Both are video game consoles, but decades apart in technology and capabilities.
No, I'm suggesting that even with refits at its core its a twenty year old ship, while the D is a brand new ship.
Inconsistent writing. Still the Galaxy class is supposed to be the newest and most advanced class in the fleet, not something cobbled together from spare parts and older technology.
Let's look at the holodeck scene
It seems apparent that Riker has past experience with holographic simulation, just not any as sophisticated as the D's holodecks. So it does not preclude a young Janeway ( who is of a similar age to Riker) from enjoying the holographic adventures of Flotter on a less sophisticated holodeck as a child. Might be the difference between watching a film using stop motion and one using CGI.
MI=Mission Impossible
Would she so bored that she’d be jumping at an opportunity to get smacked and thrown around? Mutiny? Steal a ship? Come on. Nothing about it is believable and it makes a mockery of battered spouses.
I have no experience with either of those.
But you're still comparing things that are not the same. I'm talking about the 1701 being "the best" of the 12 starships that existed at that time.
Janeway didn't say her Flotter was technologically inferior. She just said she enjoyed it when she was a child, which implies that the Flotter program was around for at least 40 years.
Some current-day kids literally do not know how to turn the pages of a physical book or magazine because they've only been exposed to electronic gadgets where they poke and swipe everything. I know that some 24th century people like physical books, but I doubt they're common. 24th century life is geared toward All Things Electronic and if Janeway's Flotter program was significantly inferior to Naomi's, I think she would have mentioned it.
It implies Flotter has been around in holographic form for 40 years.
Why would she mention it? Seems an odd comment to make.
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