Voyager's main problems

[TigerCat]

I have a feeling Tuvok’s illness was in other episodes. It was certainly strongly set up things like murder mystery episode where he investigated himself. He had a *lot* of psyche damaging stuff go on throughout Voyager. Both were just natural enough logically for Voyagers light handed approach to serial.

It wasn't. I finished re-watching the show recently and aside from a couple random "Tuvok has issues" episodes like the one when he shared a mind-meld with Suder, the one with Mr Sulu, the one you mentioned and another when he set up a holodeck scenario or killing Neelix there is no mention that something might be wrong with him. However those episodes were few and *very* far apart (and were never mentioned again) to serve as a proper foreshadowing for his illness at the last episode.

Truthfully while Voyager's episodic approach was good for the casual viewer, it didn't help for things like a sudden relationship, deep friendships with unseen crew members that conveniently died in that same episode or an illness that was so serious that should have been a much longer storyline to be believable.

 

[jaime]

It wasn't. I finished re-watching the show recently and aside from a couple random "Tuvok has issues" episodes like the one when he shared a mind-meld with Suder, the one with Mr Sulu, the one you mentioned and another when he set up a holodeck scenario or killing Neelix there is no mention that something might be wrong with him. However those episodes were few and *very* far apart (and were never mentioned again) to serve as a proper foreshadowing for his illness at the last episode.

Truthfully while Voyager's episodic approach was good for the casual viewer, it didn't help for things like a sudden relationship, deep friendships with unseen crew members that conveniently died in that same episode or an illness that was so serious that should have been a much longer storyline to be believable.

I think that was part of the point though...the earlier episodes (let’s also throw in the one where Neelix babysits Tuvok after he gets his mind riddled with, as it’s a nice episode for them) are numerous enough that you can see it as seeds, then when the writers need events dramatic enough to motivate future Janeway to change the past, it’s a logical thing to happen, rather than just killing everyone. (Because they did that with Timeless.) It made enough sense I think. It also ties sideways to TNG bringing to mind Sarek, but also Picard medical condition in All Good Things without being a rehash of either.

 

[TigerCat]

I think that was part of the point though...the earlier episodes (let’s also throw in the one where Neelix babysits Tuvok after he gets his mind riddled with, as it’s a nice episode for them) are numerous enough that you can see it as seeds, then when the writers need events dramatic enough to motivate future Janeway to change the past, it’s a logical thing to happen, rather than just killing everyone. (Because they did that with Timeless.) It made enough sense I think. It also ties sideways to TNG bringing to mind Sarek, but also Picard medical condition in All Good Things without being a rehash of either.

I see your point but I disagree. If Tuvok's illness was serious enough for the Doctor to have seen him regularly by the time we were shown it, we should have seen it sooner as well. Considering it's a scripted illness (unlike the actor, say fell and broke his arm and needed a cast which would suddenly appear on the character one day with a flimsy excuse), and it was a serious enough illness to fully incapacitate Tuvok mentally in the future segment, then it's something that should have been shown to the viewers at least a couple of episodes earlier.

Generally I'm the type of viewer that needs the serious storylines to be present in a couple of episodes to believe them. Showing me a main character is ill enough to have dire consequences in the future but that illness has never been mentioned before? Showing a couple in their third date, telling me they'll be married one day but that relationship has never been mentioned before? Sorry, I don't buy it. In contrast Tom's subterfuge in season 2 with Seska, I'll buy because I saw it happen over a number of episodes. Ditto for Tom's punishment and demotion over breaking the rules.

Realistic storylines need to be fleshed out, not be over in an episode, especially the more serious ones. I'm all for episodic shows but not when it comes to things that are so serious and important that shape the big/main storyline.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Ron Moore is a whiny bitch who has no idea what it's like to write for Network TV. And his own attempt at doing a "Lost Ship with desperate people" show ran out of steam after only 2 seasons and needed a literal deus ex machina to wrap up (and drive most of the plot!).

Lets not forget that assh@le killed Kirk twice and treated him in the most disrespectful manner in the same movie, Star Trek Generations, and still claims to be a fan of TOS. THIS??? The final time we'll ever see the greatest icon in space adventure history was treated like a dope. A man who's only dream was to be Captain of a Starship one... last... time and was dreading retirement, but as the movie unfolds... Kirk makes the stupid decision to pretend to be engineer for the day and loses his life, and in the Nexus, where dreams are made of, we find Kirk... not onboard a Starship dreaming to be a Captain again and getting into swashbuckling adventures, but instead chopping wood by a lonely cabin and later making breakfast to a woman no one can recognize. FYI: The only woman Kirk ever loved was the Enterprise. A so called "Fan" doesn't f^cking know that??? Even Kirk's funeral on a baron world makes me sick to my stomach, and his body was disgracefully left there as later multiple starships warped back to Earth. There just wasn't enough room to conceal one of the greatest hero, and highly decorated officer in Starfleet's history on board, at least, on one of those vessels. In Moore's inflated ego, THAT was how a fan treats a beloved hero.

He can critique everyone else's work with some common sense except... for his own work.

 

[Prax]

it's something that should have been shown to the viewers at least a couple of episodes earlier.

It's no different than Picard's iromatic syndrome in "All Good Things..." He finds out he has it in the future, then Beverly scans him in the present and confirms he is in the early stages.

It doesn't affect Tuvok in the present, only in the future.

As for Seven and Chakotay, it was telegraphed in "Human Error"

 

[Lynx]

Lets not forget that assh@le killed Kirk twice and treated him in the most disrespectful manner in the same movie, Star Trek Generations, and still claims to be a fan of TOS. THIS??? The final time we'll ever see the greatest icon in space adventure history was treated like a dope. A man who's only dream was to be Captain of a Starship one... last... time and was dreading retirement, but as the movie unfolds... Kirk makes the stupid decision to pretend to be engineer for the day and loses his life, and in the Nexus, where dreams are made of, we find Kirk... not onboard a Starship dreaming to be a Captain again and getting into swashbuckling adventures, but instead chopping wood by a lonely cabin and later making breakfast to a woman no one can recognize. FYI: The only woman Kirk ever loved was the Enterprise. A so called "Fan" doesn't f^cking know that??? Even Kirk's funeral on a baron world makes me sick to my stomach, and his body was disgracefully left there as later multiple starships warped back to Earth. There just wasn't enough room to conceal one of the greatest hero, and highly decorated officer in Starfleet's history on board, at least, on one of those vessels. In Moore's inflated ego, THAT was how a fan treats a beloved hero.

He can critique everyone else's work with some common sense except... for his own work.

I have to agree here. I didn't like that they brought back Kirk just to kill him off in that movie. That was disrespectful to say the least.