Voyager's main problems

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by DS9 Gal AZ, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Why do so many people dislike Fairhaven? It was quiet, had something for everyone to do (unlike most of Tom's holodeck stories) and it seems like everyone enjoyed it. Even Seven visited it.
    That said, I also liked the Victorian holonovel. It showed us a softer side of Janeway to compliment her captain side. A series of holostories to show us other aspects of the characters would be something I enjoy.
     
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  2. chris of nine

    chris of nine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Barclay had Chakotay and Torres in Maquis uniforms in his Holodeck mess hall program in Pathfinder. I would have liked to see those more often. You’d think they would still have them in their quarters and have a party, where they would mock Starfleet crew with impressions.

    It’s a stretch. But a good one. Better than open hostility.
     
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  3. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I'd think they traded their Maquis uniforms for Starfleet ones. Voyager had to spend energy creating a bunch of uniforms at once, so maybe a subtle "recycle your Maquis uniforms to *pay back* the energy" directive was given.
    But a "Maquis vs Starfleet" themed party sounds like fun, too.
     
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  4. chris of nine

    chris of nine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think that it’s so far from sci-fi that it seems like cheating for the writers, and fans prefer the future to the past, just like they diss the DaVinci eps, but it’s fine with me.
     
  5. chris of nine

    chris of nine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I’d trade a replicator ration for the privilege of keeping my uniform, for sure.
     
  6. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Considering their lives were in (supposed) constant peril with either running out of energy or foodstuffs or running into various enemies, I think they'd like the opportunity of slipping into the past for a few hours. At least that's partly why I like it and when we know most of the crew visited it.
    About the writers, why would it be cheating?
    Fans diss the DaVinci episodes? Heh, I never heard that before. I like them, but I like most holostories, especially when there's a point to them rather than a way for B'Elanna to get the snot beat out of her (and that's because the overall episode felt like a cheap way to get a B'Elanna episode).

    If 1 ration = 1 uniform, I'd pay it to get a clean uniform. Considering the Val Jean was fresh from a battle, those uniforms would be reeking with sweat and dirt.
     
  7. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Janeway: "Delete the wife."
    I could see Janeway and Chakotay compromising on the Maquis wearing some kind of clean appearing uniforms, just not putting them into Starfleet uniforms.
    I love Di Vinci and can't remember any "diss."
     
  8. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    That was a low blow, true, but why does that make people hate the holo-story as a whole? Me, I choose to blame Tom for making an overly flirtatious, while married, character as well.

    Doubt it. Janeway (or the producers/writers) wanted a united looking crew. Tom even was in uniform while he was merely an observer! Neelix may have been out of uniform but that's because Tuvok firmly refused to let him replicate himself a Security uniform (not sure what area/color uniform Neelix could be considered as, anyway) and Seven's lack on uniform had a quasi explanation as did Kes'.
    It'd be nice to see the Maquis keeping to their own uniform though when they're off shift though.
     
  9. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    The main problem with "Voyager" is that its lead was a woman. And considering this fandom's tendency to overly criticize those shows with a female lead - both "Voyager" and "Discovery" - I would say that the real problem is the fandom's sexism.

    I had spent four years ignoring "Voyager" because I heard that it was a lot worse than "The Original Trilogy", "Next Generation" and "Deep Space Nine". But a relative of mine had suggested I watch a few of its early Season Five episodes. After watching those and its earlier episodes through syndication, I realize that it was no better or worse than "TNG" and "DS9". And for the first time, I found myself wondering if the Trek fandom was bigoted. After 20 years, I realized that the fandom truly was.
     
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  10. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Wait, what now? People seriously criticized it when it was on air because the captain had their reproductive organs on the inside rather than on the outside? I don't know about "Discovery" (haven't watched it, nor do I plan to), but here no one is disliking "just because" it's lead is a woman.
     
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  11. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    "The captain had their reproductive organs on the inside rather than on the outside"??

    What are you talking about? And yes, I do believe that the gender of the show's lead had a lot to do with the amount of criticisms it had attracted . . . to the point that many Trek fans tend to overlook the flaws of the other shows. Especially "TNG" and "DS9".
     
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  12. Winterwind

    Winterwind Commodore Commodore

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    I rank the shows as follows...

    TOS
    DS9
    VOY/ENT


    TNG
    TAS

    And yes, unfortunately some fans have bigoted views and can't even see the irony of their bigotry while watching a show about a future where gender, race, colour, orientation or even species are all equal. Guess some are just in it for 'splosions in space.

    I happen to love Janeway. She's my second favourite captain after Kirk.

    Just sadly I think Janeway, like Kirk were at their best in their first seasons. But that's down to real world productions issues.
     
  13. KJY

    KJY Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Why is it that people who insist everyone doesn't like something due to sexism rarely address the criticisms directed at it? Why do you think Enterprise is generally a more hated show in spite of having a white male captain? Ronald D. Moore touched on all of the major criticisms of Voyager here: http://www.lcarscom.net/rdm1000118.htm. For the record, I actually really like Voyager. I think I might like it better than TNG, though that could be due to blind nostalgia, having seen Voyager first. DS9 is still my favorite by a mile though.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Bang!
     
  15. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I seriously hadn't heard that before...
     
  16. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it's interesting that in the Season 1 bonus features Berman and co. convey that both the writers and the studio didn't want the show to just be TNG continued but also very much didn't want it to be DS9 take two, DS9 was considered a mixed success if not a disappointment already. From the beginning the studio was worried that the basic premise of being stranded far away from home & trying to get back and focusing too much on it would cause the show to be too dark and gloomy rather than fun-and the writers themselves were less interested in using the new DQ setting to have character angst than to have a frontier feel with all-new aliens.

    It would be difficult to have and focus on a lot of conflict between Starfleet and the Maquis, especially with Janeway but also all the characters idealized and the point of the franchise emphasizing that the future would be better with more cooperation. But there at least could have been a way to emphasize more the resource limitations, maybe the need to trade and have alliances with different types of species including unadmirable ones.
     
  17. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nope, try again.
     
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  18. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder what Irish viewers thought of it?

    I don't think I've seen many if any criticise VOY because it had a female lead if there was/is any criticism it's with how the character was written not the gender, I suspect the same goes for DSC and Burnham One of the other strong female characters we have had in ST is Kira from DSN. Does she come in for the same level of criticism as Janeway or Burnham? I suspect not, if that is the case one has to ask why is that the case?

    As others have mentioned Archer comes in for a fair amount of criticism based on how he was written.

    Characters speak to each of differently based upon our own experiences so we identify with them differently. Now I could say I was more drawn to the characters of the EMH and Seven on VOY more than say Janeway or Tuvok,
     
  19. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ron Moore is a whiny bitch who has no idea what it's like to write for Network TV. And his own attempt at doing a "Lost Ship with desperate people" show ran out of steam after only 2 seasons and needed a literal deus ex machina to wrap up (and drive most of the plot!).
     
  20. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yet inspite of this, writes fantastic stories and TV.