What is your favorite female character from Voyager?

[Michael]

Facts? Your "facts"?
The "facts" from those in charge?

Uhm, whut? This was about your claim that “she was never mentioned in the series again”, that they wanted to “erase the character from everyone’s minds” and “pretend that she never existed”. The facts however are that she was mentioned multiple times after she left the show. I listed all episodes where she was mentioned by name as evidence. So your claim is totally false on its face. It’s not rocket science. Seriously, what is so hard to understand about this?

Just going to reply to that one bit, though. I don’t even know how to talk to a person who is obviously so deluded about a topic. The producers didn’t owe you or any fan anything. And they weren’t obligated to help Jennifer Lien in any way whatsoever. That they still tried to save her face and reputation and even employed her again for a guest role shows that they obviously cared about her. Everything else is a complete fantasy you are living in since the fucking 90s. It’s sad and pathetic. Wake up, man!

 

[Pumpkin Bread]

We really can't assume anything for certain. Though I have my own suspicions about the motives and behaviors of the VOY showrunners, I also know that a lot of them moved on to ENT, and their idea of a "valentine to the fans" is "These Are the Voyages". Maybe THAT episode was a miscalculation rather than any insult.

Of course, given what I saw in "Nightingale", where they assassinated Janeway's character to make a point... not assuming anything.

 

[at Quark's]

Simply put, I can believe they helped Jennifer Lien by making her re-appear on Voyager (or at least, that this was their intent). An actress isn't her character after all.

Even so, I still utterly dislike (to not use stronger terms) the way in which they made Kes return.

 

[Lynx]

Uhm, whut? This was about your claim that “she was never mentioned in the series again”, that they wanted to “erase the character from everyone’s minds” and “pretend that she never existed”. The facts however are that she was mentioned multiple times after she left the show. I listed all episodes where she was mentioned by name as evidence. So your claim is totally false on its face. It’s not rocket science. Seriously, what is so hard to understand about this?

Just going to reply to that one bit, though. I don’t even know how to talk to a person who is obviously so deluded about a topic. The producers didn’t owe you or any fan anything. And they weren’t obligated to help Jennifer Lien in any way whatsoever. That they still tried to save her face and reputation and even employed her again for a guest role shows that they obviously cared about her. Everything else is a complete fantasy you are living in since the fucking 90s. It’s sad and pathetic. Wake up, man!

So all the focus on the season 4-7 crew of Voyager, all the focus on Seven and the BS that "Seven saved the show" plus the fact that pictures of the Voyager season 1-3 crew is very rare on the net is just my imagination?

I would also like to tell you that my opinion is my opinion and I'm not gonna change anything when it comes to this subject until someone proves me 100% wrong.

And that someone is definitely not you!

Bullys who have nothing to come up with than "official" ever-changing fairytales and personal attacks won't make me change my mind or my opinion about anything, on the contrary they make me even more stubborn and give me strength to stand up for what I think is right.

 

[Pumpkin Bread]

So all the focus on the season 4-7 crew of Voyager, all the focus on Seven and the BS that "Seven saved the show" plus the fact that pictures of the Voyager season 1-3 crew is very rare on the net is just my imagination?

I just googled it. There ARE more photos with Seven than Kes, but Kes ones aren't that hard to find.

And whether Seven saved the show or not, I do think keeping Kes would have helped it. And regardless of if anyone saved it, bad choices by the showrunners were probably why it was in a position where it needed saving. With a proven franchise, a good premise, and a powerhouse cast, it shouldn't have struggled the way it did.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Aside of the treatment of Kes, what exactly do you mean by "bad choice"? Not that I disagree with you, I just want clarification.

 

[Akillaprise]

For the record Michael, who has some working knowledge of productions if I'm not mistaken, is not being a "bully" (although I am not a fan of the delusional inferences made) in pointing out that TPTB were attempting to help Jennifer with giving her a paying guest starring role in Fury. That's pretty much what it seemed like to me also. She got paid and acted the role well even though I do agree that the episode was bad and probably should have gotten a follow up before the series ended. The explanation for how the Kes we saw at the end of The Gift got to the place we saw her in Fury was poor. Plus the ending with her just beaming back to her shuttle and leaving was shit.

Lynx your response to this is over the top, as often happens. You've been "noticed" lately and not in a way that will be beneficial to you should things continue down the same path. FYI.

Sooo... anyone want to discuss something other than Kes in this thread?

 

[Pumpkin Bread]

To change the subject but stay on topic, has anyone ever thought how the show might have been different if Seska hadn't escaped to that Kazon ship? And, had to stay on Voyager as a result?

It wouldn't have happened, they were turning all the Maquis into the Happy Happy Get Along Gang, so they obviously weren't keeping any sources of potential internal conflict... but imagine if they had.

 

[Akillaprise]

A recurring sassy Cardassian Seska still with the crew could have been an interesting twist. The first one of that species in "Starfleet" or at least the uniform. The Garak of Voyager in the right hands. Always enjoy Martha Hackett.

 

[Lynx]

I just googled it. There ARE more photos with Seven than Kes, but Kes ones aren't that hard to find.

And whether Seven saved the show or not, I do think keeping Kes would have helped it. And regardless of if anyone saved it, bad choices by the showrunners were probably why it was in a position where it needed saving. With a proven franchise, a good premise, and a powerhouse cast, it shouldn't have struggled the way it did.

When it comes to find pictures of the Voyager crew, it's abut 8 out of 10 with the Seven cast.

And Seven didn't save the show.

For the record Michael, who has some working knowledge of productions if I'm not mistaken, is not being a "bully" (although I am not a fan of the delusional inferences made) in pointing out that TPTB were attempting to help Jennifer with giving her a paying guest starring role in Fury. That's pretty much what it seemed like to me also. She got paid and acted the role well even though I do agree that the episode was bad and probably should have gotten a follow up before the series ended. The explanation for how the Kes we saw at the end of The Gift got to the place we saw her in Fury was poor. Plus the ending with her just beaming back to her shuttle and leaving was shit.

Lynx your response to this is over the top, as often happens. You've been "noticed" lately and not in a way that will be beneficial to you should things continue down the same path. FYI.

Sooo... anyone want to discuss something other than Kes in this thread?

It's not my intention to create trouble and it has never been that.

if you go through all my posts, you'll see that about 90% are constructive stuff spiced with a little humor in some cases.

But when people attack me personally and call me "delusional", or "childish" and "crazy" as some other person recently did just because I have an opinion and stand up for it, then I get a bit annoyed.

I mean, you can't possibly think that I should take all the crap shoved in my face without reacting to it?

And believe me, I've actually tried hard on these two occasions to avoid being too rude myself against my "opponents". If I had written what I really wanted to write, then I would have been in real trouble.

Honestly, I don't want to be suspended or worse because certain "opponents" go for personal attacks instead of discussing the subject.

However, I didn't start those conflicts and i'm ready to bury the hatchet immediately and go back to post constructive posts.

As for the subject itself, my opinions might be a bit controversial but as it is I stand for what I think about the recent official version of what happened between seasons 3 and 4 of Voyager until something shows up which proves that i'm wrong and so far I haven't seen anything which can convince me about that.

As for discussing other Voyager things than Kes, why not?

We can always discuss the best character in season 4-7:

Flotter!

 

[at Quark's]

^ Not to derail the thread, but why are the 'Juggernaut' ratings so particularly negative?

I mean, I get it's probably one of the weaker VOY episodes, but it's not as if it's abysmally bad either.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

When it comes to find pictures of the Voyager crew, it's abut 8 out of 10 with the Seven cast.

And Seven didn't save the show.




It's not my intention to create trouble and it has never been that.

if you go through all my posts, you'll see that about 90% are constructive stuff spiced with a little humor in some cases.

But when people attack me personally and call me "delusional", or "childish" and "crazy" as some other person recently did just because I have an opinion and stand up for it, then I get a bit annoyed.

I mean, you can't possibly think that I should take all the crap shoved in my face without reacting to it?

And believe me, I've actually tried hard on these two occasions to avoid being too rude myself against my "opponents". If I had written what I really wanted to write, then I would have been in real trouble.

Honestly, I don't want to be suspended or worse because certain "opponents" go for personal attacks instead of discussing the subject.

However, I didn't start those conflicts and i'm ready to bury the hatchet immediately and go back to post constructive posts.

As for the subject itself, my opinions might be a bit controversial but as it is I stand for what I think about the recent official version of what happened between seasons 3 and 4 of Voyager until something shows up which proves that i'm wrong and so far I haven't seen anything which can convince me about that.

As for discussing other Voyager things than Kes, why not?

We can always discuss the best character in season 4-7:

Flotter!

Lynx, you have made your point, but this line of discussion leads nowhere and attracts unwanted attention, so can you please discontinue it?

 

[Lynx]

Lynx, you have made your point, but this line of discussion leads nowhere and attracts unwanted attention, so can you please discontinue it?

I have already discontinued it!

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Thanks.

 

[somebuddyX]

I think my favourite might be B'Elanna. Then Janeway, Kes, then Seven. I don't really like Seven but I think she is a good character and might be the best explored female on the series.
There's a lot of untapped potential in Voyager characters and maybe I lean towards the ones I would have liked to have seen explored more than how they were actually executed.
But when I think of B'Elanna I guess I go to those scenes in "Extreme Risk" and "Juggernaut," especially the latter I think she showers to get rid of the blood of that Malon off her. Also "Night" and "Remember"

 

[Pumpkin Bread]

Aside of the treatment of Kes, what exactly do you mean by "bad choice"? Not that I disagree with you, I just want clarification.

Good question. Here are some examples.

- Having the Maquis turn into perfect recruiting poster Starfleet drones so quickly.
- Promoting Tom back after 1-1/2 years as an ensign while not promoting Harry after 6.
- Giving the audience the finger when they expressed concern about that.
- Not spending 15 seconds explaining how Voyager got the resources to create infinite torpedoes and shuttles.
- The stupid one-person self destruct.
- Having Janeway destroy billions of futures to save... three.
- Not giving the Doctor a name.
- Neelix and Seven's outfits. Atrocious in different ways.
- Only one romance on board... and zero marriages. The whole non-credits crew were basically eunuchs.
- Neutering the Borg.
- Janeway's unbelievable inconsistency.
- Eliminating most of the most interesting secondary characters at the end of S2.
- Promoting B'Elanna for assaulting a superior officer, and in going so, eliminating most of her potential character growth in one episode.
- Allowing Chakotay and Harry to stagnate, and reducing Neelix to comic relief.
- Allowing "Threshold" to exist.
- Tap dancing on the Big Red Reset Button.

 

[fireproof78]

I think my favourite might be B'Elanna. Then Janeway, Kes, then Seven. I don't really like Seven but I think she is a good character and might be the best explored female on the series.
There's a lot of untapped potential in Voyager characters and maybe I lean towards the ones I would have liked to have seen explored more than how they were actually executed.
But when I think of B'Elanna I guess I go to those scenes in "Extreme Risk" and "Juggernaut," especially the latter I think she showers to get rid of the blood of that Malon off her. Also "Night" and "Remember"

B'elanna is my favorite because she does not fit any perfect mold. She's a fascinating character for that reason.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

Seven. End of story. Though Janeway and B'Elanna round out the Top 3. B'Elanna got better and more layered as the series progressed and by the end I felt like her character's journey had been fairly well rewarded.

 

[Tosk]

^ Not to derail the thread, but why are the 'Juggernaut' ratings so particularly negative?

I mean, I get it's probably one of the weaker VOY episodes, but it's not as if it's abysmally bad either.

My first guess would be it was up against something really big on one of the other networks.

Edit: Juggernaut aired six days after the Columbine massacre. Perhaps the news cycle was dominating everything at that time.

 

[Yuri Nikolayev]

I couldn’t vote because it’s a tie for me between Kes and Seska.