Exactly!
I don't think Mel Brooke's had access to Google when he made the History of the World part One, but then again he was spot on with his Jews in Space number if Lieutenant Commander Ivanova is anything to go by.
Voyager & Christianity/Religion
- Thread starter borg_curious
- Start date
Exactly!
I don't think Mel Brooke's had access to Google when he made the History of the World part One, but then again he was spot on with his Jews in Space number if Lieutenant Commander Ivanova is anything to go by.
There is also the possibility that in the Star Trek universe Christianity has been disproved. We know that in the 23rd century Starfleet sent ships back in time to learn about eras with incomplete historical records, such as when the Enterprise went back to 1968 in Assignment: Earth. If I was an admiral in Starfleet the first ship I'd send back would be to the time of Jebus in order to sort the whole mess out and determined what really happened. It is possible that Starfleet did such a mission, found out that Jesus was nothing more than a con artist, and belief in the Christian religions collapsed soon afterwards, thus explaining why Christianity seemed to exist at the time of TOS but was hardly ever mentioned by the TNG era.
I don't see why they wouldn't set out to test all major Earth religions. Gene's concept for TNG wasn't that Christianity didn't exist, but that most of humanity had moved beyond all religions, I was just explaining one possible way that might have happened. Yes, Chakotay had his native American religion, but there was evidence for that because of those aliens he found in Tattoo. And even when evidence clearly points to the Earth being 4.5 billion years old some people still choose to believe the fallacy that it is 6,000 years old. Such people are bound to still exist in the 24th century, just in smaller numbers.
I may be an atheist but I am open to the possibility that I'm wrong, and if there's factual evidence to support the story of Jebus, or the story that god spoke to Moses on Mt Sinai, or... whatever all those other religions believe, I want to know about it. I'm not as interested in disproving religions than I am in finding truth, so if I had the ability to travel through time and space I would test them all. Even Scientology.
I may be an atheist but I am open to the possibility that I'm wrong, and if there's factual evidence to support the story of Jebus, or the story that god spoke to Moses on Mt Sinai, or... whatever all those other religions believe, I want to know about it. I'm not as interested in disproving religions than I am in finding truth, so if I had the ability to travel through time and space I would test them all. Even Scientology.
If baseball couldn't survive the third world war, how the hell could Christianity?
The population was knocked down by 90 million (Spock's estimates were far less conservative than Rikers.) and it almost seemed as if there was an entire generation of illiteracy from the neo medieval scene in Encounter at Farpoint.
The population was knocked down by 90 million (Spock's estimates were far less conservative than Rikers.) and it almost seemed as if there was an entire generation of illiteracy from the neo medieval scene in Encounter at Farpoint.
It's survived all the other wars it caused.
But that's the "he who smelt it dealt it rule". Of course religion knew how to weather through all the disasters of it's own creation, but Colonel green murdered 600 million people because of philosophy not religion, so it probably would have been caught flat footed by the rukus in question.
What story? I thought that the historians agree that the guy existed, preached, was executed on the cross, etc. If you mean things like him being literally the son of God, or his resurrection, or the miracles, I don't think any of this is true - now I am not a Christian, although I respect the guy and like some of the teaching; but I know some people who consider themselves Christian and who don't believe it, either. Well, actually I'm not sure on resurrection - you can never be sure what is or isn't possible and what we'll discover to be possible one day - but the whole thing with God being literally his father just seems like something that was added years after his death by his followers in order to impress the people they were trying to convert. (Who are you going to be more ready to follow, eh - the son of some physical worker from Nazareth, or the son of God himself?) Even in the Gospels, it's never said that he ever claimed to be the son of God (calling God "Father" doesn't count, since it's just what most religious Jews of the time would call God), or that anyone else from his family or his circle of followers ever claimed that during his life. It's just inserted at the start of a couple of the Gospels, without any explanation what the source was. When you think about it, it's not at all important for the guy's teachings - in fact, I think it makes Jesus look much better if we assume that he was a man with strong beliefs who was ready to die for them, rather than some superhuman being who knew he was special from the day he was born and knew for sure that death meant nothing for him.
(Oh, and I think his name was actually Yeshua, not Jebus...
)
Simpsons is on hundreds of of times a day in some countries, but "god" only wants us loading his collection plate once a week, it's no wonder that Jebus isn't a more systemic threat.
Withers
Captain
The Sisko racial rant thread in the DS9 forum managed to keep it self mostly civil... but I'm with ya- something about this just said "stay away" but we'll never know until we find out, right?
The presence of Christianity in Trek would be irksome to me if it were as present as the love all humans seem to have developed for Classical (and only classical) music. It harkens to the distant past (classical music) and to contemporary society (Christianity) to bring that stuff up too much. I watch the show because I like the idea of looking at the potential future. Unless you're specifically doing the "From here to there" story (something I think they have avoided on purpose) I don't care about... anything you might liken to it. I don't care social networking survived and if it didn't I don't care what happened to it- Go fight the Borg.
See what I'm sayin?
-Withers-
I recall Uhura saying how ace the SON cult was in TOS: Bread and Circuses, so it's not like they hate Religion.
Although, I do wonder if the surviving Christians in the 24th century use psychedelic VR machines to facilitate their religion by manifestation a technological representation of their soul like Chakotay does with his? Which sounds like a revival of the medieval self flagellation monks used to go about to be closer to their saviour.
I wonder if the Amish are still about?
I mean they're purpose built to survive the fall of the modern world.
Gods.
Think of the distopic recruiting drive they could go on after the fallout settles from WWIII? "You be like us or you can continue living in a cave and starving to death."
Although?
After the Eugenics war, and WWIII, you have to wonder exactly what thenafter would pass for the end of days that the callused Christians waiting for salvation after all the revelations would even notice god closing up shop as anything but par for the course.
Although, I do wonder if the surviving Christians in the 24th century use psychedelic VR machines to facilitate their religion by manifestation a technological representation of their soul like Chakotay does with his? Which sounds like a revival of the medieval self flagellation monks used to go about to be closer to their saviour.
I wonder if the Amish are still about?
I mean they're purpose built to survive the fall of the modern world.
Gods.
Think of the distopic recruiting drive they could go on after the fallout settles from WWIII? "You be like us or you can continue living in a cave and starving to death."
Although?
After the Eugenics war, and WWIII, you have to wonder exactly what thenafter would pass for the end of days that the callused Christians waiting for salvation after all the revelations would even notice god closing up shop as anything but par for the course.
Or maybe there was, and he came back as some souless halfthing?
In Mortal Coil, the afterlife is a child's dream.
In Omega Directive, Janeway desecrates the Borg religious ideal.
In False Profits, religion is a scam.
In that episode with the people with the super-transporter Seska, Torres and Tuvok try to steak, the advanced civilization draws meaning from life from stories, i.e., art, instead of religion.
In Emanations, although the episode weasels that there might be some sort of afterlife, it is unequivocal that the alien religion is just plain wrong.
In Coda, the afterlife is haunted by minddestroying aliens.
Chakotay induces visions with a machine, or did until UPN put a stop to it.
In Sacred Ground, the plot permits anyone to read the alien religion as a total fraud, with the old folks just screwing with Janeway's mind. Or as the instant appearance of the spirits. If you can take your pick, it doesn't mean anything.
In Course: Oblivion, we get an object lesson that in the end we'll all die and at the end we won't even be remembered.
Ashes to Ashes tells us that there's no coming back from the dead.
Innocence tells us we're all children in the face of death but reason (aka Tuvok) can comfort us.
There's probably more, but Voyager is quite negative about religion's truth claims, but feels comfortable thinking about it as just another story. Most believers would not agree with this, I think. Voyager is much more honest in its treatment of religion than DS9, which is one reason why many people tend to like DS9 better.
In Omega Directive, Janeway desecrates the Borg religious ideal.
In False Profits, religion is a scam.
In that episode with the people with the super-transporter Seska, Torres and Tuvok try to steak, the advanced civilization draws meaning from life from stories, i.e., art, instead of religion.
In Emanations, although the episode weasels that there might be some sort of afterlife, it is unequivocal that the alien religion is just plain wrong.
In Coda, the afterlife is haunted by minddestroying aliens.
Chakotay induces visions with a machine, or did until UPN put a stop to it.
In Sacred Ground, the plot permits anyone to read the alien religion as a total fraud, with the old folks just screwing with Janeway's mind. Or as the instant appearance of the spirits. If you can take your pick, it doesn't mean anything.
In Course: Oblivion, we get an object lesson that in the end we'll all die and at the end we won't even be remembered.
Ashes to Ashes tells us that there's no coming back from the dead.
Innocence tells us we're all children in the face of death but reason (aka Tuvok) can comfort us.
There's probably more, but Voyager is quite negative about religion's truth claims, but feels comfortable thinking about it as just another story. Most believers would not agree with this, I think. Voyager is much more honest in its treatment of religion than DS9, which is one reason why many people tend to like DS9 better.
While I agree that Mortal Coil is a wonderful episode (my favorite Neelix episode, that's for sure), I think you're actually missing one of the points it tried to make, because in fact the story tells us something about the value of faith. I don't know anyone in RL who's a more hardcore atheist than me, but even I can see how faith and religion can help people in certain situations of their life. For a long time Neelix' faith helped him cope with the loss of his family. It's only when he loses that faith that his world view breaks down.
you have no faith in a god, but in religions. i don't know, i fail to see any good in it. it's dominated by the khomeinis, bin ladens, and some fulminating evangelists in the usa. is this evil compensated for by the comfort some might find in illusions? what did neelix win by his faith? he postponed the inevitable, to have to get over the loss of his loved ones. nearly 100 more voyager episodes prove he did.
Through a story about... a woman who came back from the dead, and an entire species based on people coming back from the dead?
When Ballard asks why she was sent on the mission that ended with her death, she doesn't stay for the reply. Although dead soldiers by their silence ask us why they died, there is no answering them, for they are dead. The scene is otherwise inexplicable.
Why else does Ballard refuse to stay, except that there is no coming back from the dead? At best, there is a chance to say goodbye before going into the darkness (dramatized by the Kim subplot.) Ballard has to go, because as the episode says, there is no coming back from the dead. Only if she stayed would the episode say differently.
As for a species that reproduces by reviving the dead of other species? However could such a thing possibly exist? In the early days of their civilization, how could they revive the dead? How could they reproduce enough to survive at all? Plainly, this is just gibberish designed to turn an impossible premise into science fiction, i.e., something fantastic but somehow still a natural part of our world.
If you thought Ashes to Ashes was a Kim episode, you were misled by a strong performance. (Wang also confused people into thinking Non Sequitur was a Kim episode by the strength of his performance.)
If you didn't understand the episode, you shouldn't post at all, much less be rude.
The point about the impossible premise of Ashes to Ashes is rather hard to argue against. It's a logical flaw of such proportions that it strikes me as rather insane that the episode didn't even address it with a throw-away line.
But Non Sequitur isn't a Harry Kim episode? Kim is the only regular character to appear until the very end, and Alternate Tom Paris is the only other character played by a regular actor to show up until the end--and he doesn't appear until the end of act two.
But Non Sequitur isn't a Harry Kim episode? Kim is the only regular character to appear until the very end, and Alternate Tom Paris is the only other character played by a regular actor to show up until the end--and he doesn't appear until the end of act two.
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