Vernal galaxy

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Falconer, Aug 25, 2021.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Oh, early Trek assumed that the Federation was spread out far more widely across the galaxy than later Trek did. Here's a magazine reproduction of the TNG art staff's map from about 1989. In that version, most of the Federation and the entire Klingon Empire are in the Perseus Arm, and the UFP is maybe 100 times bigger than it's now assumed to be. And even that's conservative compared to TOS's assumptions.

    The reason for the change is that DS9 started out saying the station was on the edge of the Federation, but then started doing stories where it took only days to travel to Earth, or for neighboring powers like the Klingons and Cardassians to travel to each other's territories. So that forced the mapmakers to assume the UFP was much smaller than it had once been assumed to be.
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The "small UFP" model was also heavily influenced by the many mentions of "famous" real stars early on. "Famous" basically means the star is fairly close to Sol and thus bright on the night sky of Earth, so the UFP action better lie closer to Sol than the less than thousand ly that separate us from Rigel or Regulus or Canopus or the like. That is, Rigel in TOS was typically a place far out ("Mudd's Women" but also "The Cage"), and it just wouldn't do to have the urban UFP sprawl past this star.

    Moreover, the later mapmakers knew the relative positions of the assorted empires (as depicted above), and stars accessible to Kirk couldn't easily lie beyond Klingon or Romulan space, not without complex extra assumptions. Hemming the action in were thus also references to real "enemy" stars like Gamma Hydra.

    Basically, the TNG map that shows the whole spiral galaxy is explicit canon - art based on that is seen in many episodes. But it could be treated as a computer display that is partially zoomed in, with the empires of the usual players blown up tenfold to hundredfold, depending.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. Falconer

    Falconer Commander Red Shirt

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    I’m pretty fond of Star Trek Maps (1980) and its take on Federation Space. It gives us a 90-parsec diameter inhabited core (centered on Sol) and a 480-parsec diameter exploration zone (centered on a point equidistant between Deneb, Antares, and Rigel). The best of both worlds!

    This graphic is from Trader Captains and Merchant Princes (1983), and further marked up by me, but it gives a good overview of the STM:

    [​IMG]

    STM itself is chock-full of incredible detail. The more time I spend with it, the more I am blown away by it as a work of science fiction. Here are just some very minor excerpts:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    (Coincidence, or did they have access to the text of that memo from The Menagerie?)
     
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  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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  5. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Maybe Gene meant venereal galaxy. Just sayin”.
     
  6. Neopeius

    Neopeius Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly this. Whether Dr. Who or Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits, galaxy, universe, and solar system tend to get used interchangeably by the scientifically illiterate writers. You just kinda have to squint your ears to make sense of the scripts sometimes.
     
  7. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    AHEM!Coughcoughcough!
     
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  8. ThrorII

    ThrorII Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The only problem with the Star Trek Maps (and the FASA rpg maps that were influenced by STM) is that the Romulan Empire is WAY to far away from Earth to have fought a war 100 years prior.
     
  9. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    That looks like the Death Star II.

    Which memo? The "vernal" thing is right on screen and fans often gleaned texts from film frames sold by Lincoln AvoidPayingEileenRoddenberryAShare Enterprises.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  10. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Great map!
    I'm assuming that the designers didn't subscribe the wap-cubed formula?
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    STM added the "Cochrane factor" that basically just gave a thousandfold boost to the cubed speeds.

    (Also, STM confused the galactic coordinates with Earth-centric ones, so their galaxy was tilted by the amount Earth's axis is tilted against the Milky Way's. Rotate the things "back", and the positions of the star empires also begin to look more like those of current Trek maps.)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They should've gone all the way with it and described every single crew member that way. "Cute Redhead Yeoman Colt." "We Say He's Latin But DAMN He Looks Aryan Navigator Tyler." "Almost Ready For Retirement Chief Medical Officer Boyce."
     
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  13. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  14. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Writer and occasional starship commander Premium Member

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    Vernal. Pinal. It's Roddenberry's "tech-the-tech" to sound scientific.
     
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  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Nobody was ever supposed to hear these words spoken aloud or see them clearly onscreen anyway, so they were just filler.
     
  16. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    On broadcast television (typical screen size ranging 13-19 inches), without the ability to pause frames for close examination? Not legible at all.
     
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  17. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Which is a great point. So, we could well have been going to town analyzing a document that basically kinda just says "peas and carrots" over and over again [https://mst3kriffaday.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/129-peas-and-carrots-peas-and-carrots/].

    :lol: :alienblush: :ouch:
     
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  18. Falconer

    Falconer Commander Red Shirt

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    The 1976 ed. of the Concordance has no info from the TV prop. Here is how it defines Quadrant: An area of space (a misnomer, as it should be called an octant.)

    The 1980 U.S.S. Enterprise Officer’s Handbook includes a (fuller) “Talos IV Report” which includes no info from the TV prop.
     
  19. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    If that were the case they'd have typed nonsense or not shown the text at all, as per the script, which calls for no closeups of the report. The fact they went to this trouble indicates they expected it to be at least somewhat readable.

    As to "vernal" and "pineal" et al, it is just what Ryan suggests, tech the tech-ing in 1966.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  20. GNDN18

    GNDN18 270 Rear Admiral

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    I spent too much time on the Memory Alpha talk page arguing that the editors placed way too much stock in the prop prepared from a scripted exchange between Kirk and Mendez. “Comsol” became “Robert L. Comsol, Commanding Officer” to add some verisimilitude and, yes, flavor to the play.

    But taking advantage of the transitory nature of the medium (check out the mottos on the dedication plaques), is not limited to this show. Even the ordinarily strait-laced Leave it to Beaver had a bit of fun with briefly seen correspondence.

    So if the completists need to fit phagrin mass computers and vernal galaxies in the overall scheme of the franchise, good for them. For me, I put my trust in Robert L. Comsol, as played by Chester W. Cincpac.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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